Note to the haters -players still in European competition...

[Berni]

Suffice to say that if someone is living in the north of England, but retaining the intellectual, social, sexual and moral outlook of a village in Bengal, then they are not fitting in in any sense.

[Classic Jorge]

That goes for people on all sides.

The world is a truly global place now, maintaining some sepia tinted idea of cultural mores from half a century ago is simply pointless. Not only does that person lose out, society as a whole does.

I still don't know what the alternative to multiculturalism is, especially given we have such a multitude of cultures anyway.

I might have got the whole Britain thing wrong, god knows I often do, but isn't it literally a country built on a multitude of cultures anyway?

[Berni]

retain what they have acquired rather than give it away. Any attempt to buck that fundamental aspect of human nature is doomed to be both tyrannical and ultimately to fail.

[Classic Jorge]

It's only the greed of some people that directly results in the deprivation of others.

The real tyranny is in perpetuating and apologising for it.

[Berni]

society and milieu in which they felt comfortable. Then, government imposed waves of immigration on them that effectively destroyed that milieu. In its place rose a completely different type of society shaped by the immigrants. Those white people who then yearn for their old society are told that they are racist for wanting to go back to it, but ask themselves why the immigrants aren't considered racist for insisting on living in the type of society they prefer. Thus does multiculturalism operate a double standard and load the dice against the majority, indigenous culture. Do you see?

And of course we're formed from lots of cultures, but there has traditionally been a unifying idea of homogeneity - a sense that 'Britishness', whilst hard to define, was something we were all largely signed up to. I don't think that's the case anymore.

[Berni]

If you tell me you're prepared for you and your family to take the cut in lifestyle, infrastructure, amenities and whatever that it would require to bring the people of the Central African Republic to an equivalent standard of living to ours, I'm afraid I simply don't believe you.

We're all complicit in the greed of which you speak.

[redgunamo]

Multi-culti is a great distraction and the alternative is a million Rio Ferdinands and Ashley Coles pouring out of the urban underworld and applying that same hard work, discipline and skill to all the other professions we would rather keep for ourselves and our kids. Imagine if they all learned to speak and dress and behave properly, clogging up the best schools and colleges and jobs and so on.

A few will always get through the net, of course, and m/c, race, gender issues even is an excellent place to put them to keep them out of our hair. Premier League football is fine too as they get rich and therefore don't significantly affect the overall picture. If you can also get them to join the chorus on their retirement then so much the better.

[Classic Jorge]

My family, at least the english bit, lived in London for generations and saw influxes from every corner of the island an its empire. Mining communities up north saw influxes from Ireland, Scotland and even France, the low countries and Scandinavia. They came, they spent a couple of generations being different and then they integrated eventually.

This idea that they were ever comfortable with the situation, or it was in any way stable is a strange construct. I'd also debate the fact they felt they'd signed up to anything, they were subjects who were subjected to stuff. That was their lot.

I understand your reading of multiculturalism and, as I've said, I kind of agree with it. Especially as someone who's been, as andy would say, "in and around" it.

I still don't see what the alternative is though

[Classic Jorge]

I'm not even sure it's you, for what it's worth

[Snin]