I see there's one of those 'The Universe is Really Big' videos doing the rounds on

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Originally Posted by Herbert Augustus Chapman

They've all just been smoking the weed gan

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Nah, Herbs, that's the thing.

The sadhus have been smoking chillums non-stop, I grant you.

And the acid heads have been boshing the rips.

But what about the Buddhist monks, hhhmm?

In around 1990 some mates of mine were squatting near to a Buddhist monastery just outside London and they got a load of ketamine in. The squatters, not the Buddhists.

So anyway, my mates started boshing the K, and metaphorically speaking, started stomping round the astral planes in their dirty great Doc Martins reeking of Spesh.

2 days later, the Buddhist abbot knocks on the door and comes in. He says he has no problem with them trying to understand these states of consciousness or even being hedonistic druggies. He just wants them to understand that for all his monks, getting to these states of consciousness without drugs requires a lot of hard work.

And if, when his monks get into those states, they encounter some crusty having an out of body experience, while another is wobbling in and out of the plane, moaning that he should have had a bigger line, then they find it off putting and it makes it impossible for them to meditate.

Obviously the guys and girls in the squat apologised profusely and said they'd save the rest of the K for Saturday night in a Hackney warehouse which would mean they wouldn't disturb the honest monks.

So, given this post is entirely true, how do you explain the Kayed-up crusties and the drug free monks inhabiting the same astral planes?

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Originally Posted by Ash

Oh, I've experienced it myself, thanks to psychedelic stimulants. My materialism isn't absolute, but it's a policy to stop myself believing in absolute crap.

There are many theories out there, but as a wise man said, the chances of ever finding out what's really going on are so absurdly remote the only thing to do is to screw the sense of it all and keep yourself occupied.



Love is the Law! Love under Will!

I would unpick the IEOOHIPL but I don't have time today.

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But then how do you explain the fact that Buddhists, Sadhus, drugged up crusties, druids on mushrooms etc all get to the same planes?

If it's just the drugs, explain the Buddhists?

Just just make it easier to access - as 4.5k years of Hindu sadhus will tell you. But they don't create those states, otherwise Buddhists monks wouldn't get there. They are just a short cut to opening the door.

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Originally Posted by Burney

But your Gods aren't real, gg. :shrug:

The Big Man has seen you pantheists off before and he'll have no difficulty doing so again.

I have read His teachings. He is very insistent on the doctrinal authority of the Old Testament. I doubt a Buddhist would have been.

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Bøllocks, is he.

He says turn the other cheek. None of this Hebrew Eye for an Eye nonsense. If a man steals your jacket, give him your jumper as well. That's hippy Buddhism.

And without wishing to be racist, if all those lot in Palestine/Israel had a bit more "do unto others" and a bit less "my religion is the only way so I'm gonna smite you" the world would be a better place.

Abrahamics are fückwits. The thing that makes Christianity different is that JC himself was actually a Vedic, not an Abrahamic.

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

But then how do you explain the fact that Buddhists, Sadhus, drugged up crusties, druids on mushrooms etc all get to the same planes?

If it's just the drugs, explain the Buddhists?

Just just make it easier to access - as 4.5k years of Hindu sadhus will tell you. But they don't create those states, otherwise Buddhists monks wouldn't get there. They are just a short cut to opening the door.

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They all get to the same ‘plane’ for the same reason most people agree that the sky is blue and that salt tastes salty - because we’re all wired up pretty much the same and have similar chemical responses to particular stimuli - regardless of whether the trigger for that stimulus comes in the form of days of fasting and meditation or a tab of acid. :shrug:
There’s nothing mystical or spiritual about that.

Are you saying they were bumping into each other on the astral plane but not physically?

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

Bøllocks, is he.

He says turn the other cheek. None of this Hebrew Eye for an Eye nonsense. If a man steals your jacket, give him your jumper as well. That's hippy Buddhism.

And without wishing to be racist, if all those lot in Palestine/Israel had a bit more "do unto others" and a bit less "my religion is the only way so I'm gonna smite you" the world would be a better place.

Abrahamics are fückwits. The thing that makes Christianity different is that JC himself was actually a Vedic, not an Abrahamic.

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He makes regular references to the inviolability of Mosaic law and references the scriptures constantly - he wasn't called 'Rabbi' for nothing. He was a Jewish heretic - he was not a Buddhist.

Also, he says and does things that are by no means non-violent. Turning over the tables of the money lenders in the temple (why would the temple have such meaning to a Buddhist, btw?) and saying "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." Not very hippyish, is it?

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

And that is why there is some essential element of civility in Christianity which is lacking in the other two Abrahamic religions.

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You may have a point here. Though 'east' could refer to somewhere a little closer, like Mesopotamia.

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Originally Posted by Herbert Augustus Chapman

Are you saying they were bumping into each other on the astral plane but not physically?

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Yup.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

There house was at one end of the street, the monastery at the other. They'd been squatting there for a couple of months without any interaction or incident, but as soon as they got hold of all this K and started having out of body trips, the head honcho monk came and asked them nicely to stop.

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

Yup.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

There house was at one end of the street, the monastery at the other. They'd been squatting there for a couple of months without any interaction or incident, but as soon as they got hold of all this K and started having out of body trips, the head honcho monk came and asked them nicely to stop.

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That's incredible. I had always thought that talk of different planes, astral or otherwise and "out-of-body" phenomena were the stuff 'o nonsense gan - oh wait! I still do :-)

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Originally Posted by Ash

You may have a point here. Though 'east' could refer to somewhere a little closer, like Mesopotamia.

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Mesopotamia's more S than East compared to Palestine, isn't it? And what was the religion of pre-Islamic Iraq?

I suppose they could be Persian Zoroastrianism, and there are some similarities with Vedism as it stems from the Proto-Indo-Iranian tradition, but there are just too many similarities with Buddhism.

Once you look only at the words of Jeez himself (not any letters or whatever) and you imagine a hippy Buddhist trying to explain the religion in words of one syllable to a bunch of Classical era Jews, it sort of makes sense.

Eg turn the other cheek, not eye for an eye. Because we should do unto others etc.

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Originally Posted by Herbert Augustus Chapman

That's incredible. I had always thought that talk of different planes, astral or otherwise and "out-of-body" phenomena were the stuff 'o nonsense gan - oh wait! I still do :-)

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Care to give me a rationalist explanation for what happened?

{Btw, when you've actually experienced the Pure Love of Divinity, actually physically experienced it, you know that it's not some hallucination. That it's real, in fact more real than our reality. Oh, and if you've ever glanced Eternity you'll know it really is a long ****ing time. Like longer than everything, ever.}

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

Mesopotamia's more S than East compared to Palestine, isn't it? And what was the religion of pre-Islamic Iraq?

I suppose they could be Persian Zoroastrianism, and there are some similarities with Vedism as it stems from the Proto-Indo-Iranian tradition, but there are just too many similarities with Buddhism.

Once you look only at the words of Jeez himself (not any letters or whatever) and you imagine a hippy Buddhist trying to explain the religion in words of one syllable to a bunch of Classical era Jews, it sort of makes sense.

Eg turn the other cheek, not eye for an eye. Because we should do unto others etc.

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No, due East really. Not sure what was happening at year zero but before that you had the Babylonians and Assyrians and Sumerians. Possibly Hittites. They were all quite smitey tbf, and were quite into the King-as-God number, like the Egyptians.

Hah! Eureka! King of the Jews, eh? QED :judge:

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

Care to give me a rationalist explanation for what happened?

{Btw, when you've actually experienced the Pure Love of Divinity, actually physically experienced it, you know that it's not some hallucination. That it's real, in fact more real than our reality. Oh, and if you've ever glanced Eternity you'll know it really is a long ****ing time. Like longer than everything, ever.}

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I was a far more spritual creature when I was younger ganp. I would have out of the body experiences which I now believe may have been nothing more than lucid dreams.

I would also have exhilerating flying dreams in which I could propel myself to the stratosphere before gravity would lose pateince and I would turn round and hurtle earthwards at incredible velocity.

And I would often hear music that was multi-layered and fantastic, mutli-dimensional even and though I was listening to it I was also actually creating it in my mind.

None of these things happen anymore and I miss them but there was a darker side I do not miss. I would occasionally feel myself visited by a force that was unimaginably and pungently evil such that I would I was about to forfeit my very soul - how one might feel if one drifted too close to a black hole.

The terror that gripped me would grow exponentially so that it could only last a couple of seconds before I would wake and andI would be quite shaken for a couple of days. It felt to me that Satan himself had gazed on me. I still tremble slightly remembering it.

As the memories fade I begin to think it was all inside my own nut and to be honest, a whole years worth of flying like a god isn't worth a single second in the company of The Devil.

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

Care to give me a rationalist explanation for what happened?

{Btw, when you've actually experienced the Pure Love of Divinity, actually physically experienced it, you know that it's not some hallucination. That it's real, in fact more real than our reality. Oh, and if you've ever glanced Eternity you'll know it really is a long ****ing time. Like longer than everything, ever.}

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Temporal dislocation, perhaps. Bell's theorem of non-local connectivity raises some interesting possibilities about dimensions of space and time. Doesn't prove there's a god though - just that there can be scientific explanations for metaphysical data.

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Originally Posted by Herbert Augustus Chapman

I was a far more spritual creature when I was younger ganp. I would have out of the body experiences which I now believe may have been nothing more than lucid dreams.

I would also have exhilerating flying dreams in which I could propel myself to the stratosphere before gravity would lose pateince and I would turn round and hurtle earthwards at incredible velocity.

And I would often hear music that was multi-layered and fantastic, mutli-dimensional even and though I was listening to it I was also actually creating it in my mind.

None of these things happen anymore and I miss them but there was a darker side I do not miss. I would occasionally feel myself visited by a force that was unimaginably and pungently evil such that I would I was about to forfeit my very soul - how one might feel if one drifted too close to a black hole.

The terror that gripped me would grow exponentially so that it could only last a couple of seconds before I would wake and andI would be quite shaken for a couple of days. It felt to me that Satan himself had gazed on me. I still tremble slightly remembering it.

As the memories fade I begin to think it was all inside my own nut and to be honest, a whole years worth of flying like a god isn't worth a single second in the company of The Devil.

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Are you sure though? They say the Devil has the best choons, after all.

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Originally Posted by Ash

Are you sure though? They say the Devil has the best choons, after all.

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No mate, that's just an old music aphorism. I really cannot articulate sufficiently how terrifying that spirit is. The abiding sense I was always left with was its enormous, immeasurable power.

Hold me Ash, for I am afraid again.

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Originally Posted by Ash

Temporal dislocation, perhaps. Bell's theorem of non-local connectivity raises some interesting possibilities about dimensions of space and time. Doesn't prove there's a god though - just that there can be scientific explanations for metaphysical data.

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Why does the scientific explanation disprove there's a God? Or prove there's a God?

The Big Bang, the splitting off of the four fundamental forces, the matter-anti-matter annihilation, the left over matter starting to fuse into protons, the formation of H, the gravity pulling it into stars, the let there be light fusion to He, and the creation of all other elements in dying stars of different sizes could be used to say there's no God, there's just laws of physics. Or it could be looking at how God Himself created the world.

{Personally, I think the whole of everything suddenly turning up from nowhere creating space time in an infinitesimally small, infinitesimally dense, infinitesimally hot point looks like the sort of stunt Shiva would pull when He's especially stoned, but I have no evidence to support this.}

Again, these elements from dying stars drifting here over 10m years until the creation of our solar system 4-5bya, and then forming molecules of increasing complexity until they suddenly start self-replicating and forming unicellular life could just be the laws of physics.

Or it could just be Shiva cheating after a particularly large chillum made His 3rd Eye twitch open a bit.

Likewise the fact that this unicellular life just dosses around for 3 bn years before suddenly exploding into multicellular life which eventually leads human consciousness to rise as if by magic in a period of only a 100k years, 1 bn years later could again just be the laws of physics.

Or you and I using this consciousness to discuss this subject, despite never having met, could just be Shiva using two tiny parts of His creation to try to understand Himself better.

You pays your money and you takes your choice, init?

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Originally Posted by Herbert Augustus Chapman

I was a far more spritual creature when I was younger ganp. I would have out of the body experiences which I now believe may have been nothing more than lucid dreams.

I would also have exhilerating flying dreams in which I could propel myself to the stratosphere before gravity would lose pateince and I would turn round and hurtle earthwards at incredible velocity.

And I would often hear music that was multi-layered and fantastic, mutli-dimensional even and though I was listening to it I was also actually creating it in my mind.

None of these things happen anymore and I miss them but there was a darker side I do not miss. I would occasionally feel myself visited by a force that was unimaginably and pungently evil such that I would I was about to forfeit my very soul - how one might feel if one drifted too close to a black hole.

The terror that gripped me would grow exponentially so that it could only last a couple of seconds before I would wake and andI would be quite shaken for a couple of days. It felt to me that Satan himself had gazed on me. I still tremble slightly remembering it.

As the memories fade I begin to think it was all inside my own nut and to be honest, a whole years worth of flying like a god isn't worth a single second in the company of The Devil.

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That's actually really interesting.

I have no idea why some people can feel that evil, satanic side, while others, while still having dark or bad trips, know it's simply the Divine being pissed off with them or mocking them. They never see or believe in any evil/anti-God/devil stuff.

I really don't know.

I argued about this spirituality with one of my best mates for years. (A West London sperzer of Irish extraction.) He told me that he'd been vaguely interested in the idea of satanism as a kid (perhaps a reaction to Catholic parents) but once when the was off it years later, the devil turned up ask asked if he really wanted to get to know him. To which my mate started whimpering "nooooo" and he just disappeared.

But last year, after 20 years of arguing about this, and giving me all the same rationalist stuff you have, he did a really big line of K under the duvet and Jesus and Buddha walked him to God, which he describes as Pure Love. As I'd been saying for 20 years.

But hey, perhaps I put that idea in his head. Or perhaps this is a state that people are evolving to, just like we evolved life, then complex life then consciousness.

Again, you pays you money.....

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Originally Posted by Herbert Augustus Chapman

No mate, that's just an old music aphorism. I really cannot articulate sufficiently how terrifying that spirit is. The abiding sense I was always left with was its enormous, immeasurable power.

Hold me Ash, for I am afraid again.

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Exactly. I've glimpsed that a couple of times, and it is absolutely terrifying. Now imagine the inverse. You know how powerful and dark and scary and evil that felt? Imagine that as a positive pure love feeling. For hours on end.

But I've only seen that twice in the "I'm really the Devil - only kidding, just testing, lad, well done, you passed" kinda way.

But those two glances are all I need thank you very much.

I don't believe in satan or whatever. I just believe in God and know that He can take the right piss if He wants.

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

But I've only seen that twice in the "I'm really the Devil - only kidding, just testing, lad, well done, you passed" kinda way.
But those two glances are all I need thank you very much.

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Well I may well source some of this ketamin of which you speak and take a peek.*

*but it don't make you my shaman right - you old fraud!

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Originally Posted by Herbert Augustus Chapman

Well I may well source some of this ketamin of which you speak and take a peek.*

*but it don't make you my shaman right - you old fraud!

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Oh, it is good. If you wanna pm me an address, I'm sure I could talk one of my hardcore raver mates into sending you a little line gratis. Might take up to a month, though.

Who is already using such tools how video converter? I found the file converter here I need a fast tool for convert any video.

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Originally Posted by Burney

But at least you can actually go to the States if you want. You can't go to Alpha Centauri, so what's the point in knowing about it? :shrug:

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Tony C Can't #jailbird