Len McCluskey on the election: "The whingers and whiners say we didn't win. I say we

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peter

Its very much part of the game. I like the fact that party retains a conscience and an eye for its history. It is of course very frustrating to have such muppets in charge.

---

There's an eye for history as you put it, and then there's misty-eyed nostalgia for a period of utter political impotence and widespread failure as a political party. The fact that people like Mason can even express a sentiment like that surely tells you they're more interested in ideologically-pure opposition than in gaining power and doing things.

And that's the real problem with seeing 2017 as a victory, of course. It sets a limit on your ambitions and tells everyone you don't ever really expect to actually win.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Burney

There's an eye for history as you put it, and then there's misty-eyed nostalgia for a period of utter political impotence and widespread failure as a political party. The fact that people like Mason can even express a sentiment like that surely tells you they're more interested in ideologically-pure opposition than in gaining power and doing things.

And that's the real problem with seeing 2017 as a victory, of course. It sets a limit on your ambitions and tells everyone you don't ever really expect to actually win.

---

Well, the real problem with seeing it as a victory is that they lost, but I take your point.

They will see the result as re-shaping the political debate and dismissing the notion that the electorate should never be presented with a left wing manifesto. They also see it as a huge victory within the party, which it is.

Going forward, it is dangerous. I would like another election sooner rather than later.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Burney

did win."

What the fúck is wrong with these people?

Also, there's someone walking around the Conference with an actual Jeremy Corbyn icon. And that's without mentioning the fact that there appear to be hundreds of people walking around there openly displaying soviet iconography with no hint of shame.

Mad. These people are all fúcking mad. :snakehead:

Attachment 751

---

I guess they might compare it to losing 2-0 in the first leg of a European away tie and scoring a consolation in the last minute. In this scenario, defeat would feel like victory.

Or, they might just mean that the GE was the building block for victory next time round, which to be fair *might* be true.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Monty92

I guess they might compare it to losing 2-0 in the first leg of a European away tie and scoring a consolation in the last minute. In this scenario, defeat would feel like victory.

Or, they might just mean that the GE was the building block for victory next time round, which to be fair *might* be true.

---

The thing is, JC got an absolute cùnting in the entire media, and from all parties including his own for about two years and still scored that away goal. Without knowing all voters' motives, I expect it was a combination of hope both from traditional labour voters that he might improve their lot, and from labour's new middle class core hoping that his pro-EU party would reverse Brexit.

While he has secured the latter, his betrayal of the former will be punished imo. The UKIP could well be back in the next GE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Burney

I think that underestimates quite how much the electoral boundaries in this country are weighted against the Tories, to be fair.

---

Labour's manifesto position was very deliberately worded to allow them to be creative with their position on Brexit. And of course because of the prevailing narrative that Brexit is going to be a disaster, many of the Leavers who ambivalently voted Labour last time round might now do so with even LESS caution, precisely BECAUSE of their softer position on Brexit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ash

The thing is, JC got an absolute cùnting in the entire media, and from all parties including his own for about two years and still scored that away goal. Without knowing all voters' motives, I expect it was a combination of hope both from traditional labour voters that he might improve their lot, and from labour's new middle class core hoping that his pro-EU party would reverse Brexit.

While he has secured the latter, his betrayal of the former will be punished imo. The UKIP could well be back in the next GE.

---

You've got that confused, haven't you? If any Labour voters feel betrayed right now, it's the middle class.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ash

The thing is, JC got an absolute cùnting in the entire media, and from all parties including his own for about two years and still scored that away goal. Without knowing all voters' motives, I expect it was a combination of hope both from traditional labour voters that he might improve their lot, and from labour's new middle class core hoping that his pro-EU party would reverse Brexit.

While he has secured the latter, his betrayal of the former will be punished imo. The UKIP could well be back in the next GE.

---

It seems to me that they've officially decided that the middle class core is more important to them than the traditional base. I guess they figure enough of the latter will vote for them (along with their muslim vote) to get them elected in former industrial towns, while the middle classes could actually help them gain seats from the tories - which is what they most need to do.

In other words, if the traditional Labour voters keep bovinely voting Labour regardless of Labour's policies, they're going to get royally screwed - and they're going to deserve it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Monty92

You've got that confused, haven't you? If any Labour voters feel betrayed right now, it's the middle class.

---

Eh? Labour's Brexit policy reversal has been instituted precisely to gain the votes of the pro-EU middle classes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Burney

It seems to me that they've officially decided that the middle class core is more important to them than the traditional base. I guess they figure enough of the latter will vote for them (along with their muslim vote) to get them elected in former industrial towns, while the middle classes could actually help them gain seats from the tories - which is what they most need to do.

In other words, if the traditional Labour voters keep bovinely voting Labour regardless of Labour's policies, they're going to get royally screwed - and they're going to deserve it.

---

But the young middle class will vote for Labour regardless. it's only their parents who probably aren't subjected to the peer pressure of social media who will often be Tory or swing voters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Monty92

But the young middle class will vote for Labour regardless. it's only their parents who probably aren't subjected to the peer pressure of social media who will often be Tory or swing voters.

---

My daughter won't. She won't say, of course, but I strongly suspect she voted Labour because of the tuition fees thing. The subsequent total backtrack on that policy has convinced her that Labour are not to be trusted.