Whoa! 'Theresa May to call Arlene Foster later today to pitch border deal'?

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Originally Posted by SWv2

Allowing the people to vote on an issue which even the politicians in charge, or those whose idea it was, failed to fully understand the consequences of was never really a great idea.

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This is a technocratic argument for concentrating power in the hands of an unelected elite, who in reality should not be trusted to be either wise or fair. The alternative is self-determination, which may be difficult, but that is not a reason for not doing it.

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Originally Posted by SWv2

Allowing the people to vote on an issue which even the politicians in charge, or those whose idea it was, failed to fully understand the consequences of was never really a great idea.

Then again allowing the people to make that call was not May’s call.

The spineless chap who started it all has kind of slid off I note.

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Only one 'consequence' has ever mattered, though, sw: Getting out of the fücking EU.

Everything else is just detail. It's like a divorce. You don't get divorced knowing every negative or positive consequence of doing so. You get divorced because your relationship has reached an irrevocable point of breakdown.

Every potential difficulty of leaving the EU (and several made-up ones) was flagged up to us before the vote and yet we still voted to Leave. That is an informed decision. We wanted out regardless of the 'consequences'.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Only one 'consequence' has ever mattered, though, sw: Getting out of the fücking EU.

Everything else is just detail. It's like a divorce. You don't get divorced knowing every negative or positive consequence of doing so. You get divorced because your relationship has reached an irrevocable point of breakdown.

Every potential difficulty of leaving the EU (and several made-up ones) was flagged up to us before the vote and yet we still voted to Leave. That is an informed decision. We wanted out regardless of the 'consequences'.

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In reality the public were fed hore**** from both sides and inevitably ended up believing what they wanted to believe. THe vast majority of people (on both sides) had virtually no idea what they were voting for. Most of them dont actually know what the EU is. An awful lot of them dont know the difference between a Prime Minister and the Queen.

Ash will probably tell me that this is another example of my Blairist elitism but the fact is the majority of british people take no interest in politics and know virtually nothing about it. THat is fine when we give them a choice between red and blue. If you ask them a complicated question then **** knows what answer you are going to get.

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Originally Posted by Peter

In reality the public were fed hore**** from both sides and inevitably ended up believing what they wanted to believe. THe vast majority of people (on both sides) had virtually no idea what they were voting for. Most of them dont actually know what the EU is. An awful lot of them dont know the difference between a Prime Minister and the Queen.

Ash will probably tell me that this is another example of my Blairist elitism but the fact is the majority of british people take no interest in politics and know virtually nothing about it. THat is fine when we give them a choice ‘between red and blue. If you ask them a complicated question then **** knows what answer you are going to get.

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Balls. This is just a way of saying ‘People should not be allowed to vote for outcomes I might dislike’.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Balls. This is just a way of saying ‘People should not be allowed to vote for outcomes I might dislike’.

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Yes, I think that's exactly what Peter is saying.

And I would expect exactly the same from you or I if Corbyn were to be elected PM. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

And I would expect exactly the same from you or I if Corbyn were to be elected
PM. :shrug:

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Corbyn? PM? My god, could you imagine..?

I suppose, one cannot ignore the democratic process which, regrettably, allows mouth-breathers, ****wits, retards and Spurs fans to vote. Some of which will. If they can find the polling station, of course.

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Originally Posted by IUFG

Corbyn? PM? My god, could you imagine..?

I suppose, one cannot ignore the democratic process which, regrettably, allows mouth-breathers, ****wits, retards and Spurs fans to vote. Some of which will. If they can find the polling station, of course.

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You forgot to put Leavers in that list IUFG ;-)

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Originally Posted by Burney

Balls. This is just a way of saying ‘People should not be allowed to vote for outcomes I might dislike’.

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It also happens to be true. Talk to the average person about politics.

You know where I work. I asked 25 people here who the head of the church of england was. Around 17/18 very well educated people didnt know.

I knew the answer to that when I was 8 years old. How the **** can you not know that?????

People are horribly disengaged with politics and for that reason I have always opposed referenda. I have been very clear on that through all the years I have been on here. You know it, I know it and until the referendum was on the subject of Brexit, you agree with me.

I heard three sociologists going on and on about how a second referendum is inevitable. It ****ing isnt.....

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Originally Posted by Peter

It also happens to be true. Talk to the average person about politics.

You know where I work. I asked 25 people here who the head of the church of england was. Around 17/18 very well educated people didnt know.

I knew the answer to that when I was 8 years old. How the **** can you not know that?????

People are horribly disengaged with politics and for that reason I have always opposed referenda. I have been very clear on that through all the years I have been on here. You know it, I know it and until the referendum was on the subject of Brexit, you agree with me.

I heard three sociologists going on and on about how a second referendum is inevitable. It ****ing isnt.....

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Is CoE relevant to politics?

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Originally Posted by Peter

It also happens to be true. Talk to the average person about politics.

You know where I work. I asked 25 people here who the head of the church of england was. Around 17/18 very well educated people didnt know.

I knew the answer to that when I was 8 years old. How the **** can you not know that?????

People are horribly disengaged with politics and for that reason I have always opposed referenda. I have been very clear on that through all the years I have been on here. You know it, I know it and until the referendum was on the subject of Brexit, you agree with me.

I heard three sociologists going on and on about how a second referendum is inevitable. It ****ing isnt.....

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Ah, well if your point is that we should avoid referendums at all costs then I would agree with you. It wasn't clear that you were making that point until now, I think.

The voting public can be trusted with voting for the right person to represent them, but no more. But the problem is that there was no way that political parties, outside of nutters like Farage, were ever going to run a campaign based on leaving the EU because it was too risky and there was no quantitative basis for doing so.

Basically, Cameron out!