I see John Cleese has unleashed a shítstorm by the simple expedient of stating a fact

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

I don't. I think everyone should do their best to integrate whilst also adding the best of their own culture to the melting pot that is London.

I want us to have, as a base, the continually evolving British identity, whilst also taking on board the best aspects of all the world's cultures. This gives us stuff like Ska/Two Tone, for example.

And "proper sports" isn't an arbitrary or irrational term. Ours are pwoppa, yank ones aren't.

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A continually evolving identity is not an identity at all. It is, in fact, the denial of identity.

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Originally Posted by Burney

I wouldn't restrict it to skin colour. There are very successful immigrant groups who are non-white - the Hindus being the best example. However, their success has been based on strenuous efforts to integrate with the indigenous culture.

And those 'large scale' immigrations you mention are nothing - NOTHING - on the scale of what has happened in London since 1997.

Also, it's worth noting that Irish people were actually British in the 19th and early 20th century - so not immigrants. You Brits forget that so easily. ;-)

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We are talking about London, not Britain. We are also not talking about the scale of migration to London but what defines being an indigenous Londoner. I'd also take a note out of your comments regarding Hindus and integration. All ethnic groups have groups within that understand what migrating to a new location brings with it and those that do not or do not care. You can't be 100% that one group understand something better than another

Every minority that moves to a culturally different location, will naturally seek out people that they identify with, regardless of which particular religion or racial group they belong to.

Integration is another term I find almost meaningless in this context.

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

But would not the Yoot-speak spoken by those born within the sound of the Bow Bells count as a Cockney accent?

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No, as the Cockney accent was actually an import from Essex. The original, 'London accent' was something closer to today's RP.

And today's Bow Bells equivalent is probably extends to within earshot of the M25. I actually went in St Mary le Bow for the first time the other week. Surprisingly small inside.

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Originally Posted by Alberto Balsam Rodriguez

We are talking about London, not Britain. We are also not talking about the scale of migration to London but what defines being an indigenous Londoner.

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London is the capital city of England and the principal city of the United Kingdom. For it not to reflect the wider country in ethnic, cultural or linguistic terms is an anomalous situation to say the least. And, given the degree to which it now fails to reflect the wider country, it is fair comment to argue that it has ceased in those terms at least to be an English city.

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Originally Posted by Alberto Balsam Rodriguez

I'd also take a note out of your comments regarding Hindus and integration. All ethnic groups have groups within that understand what migrating to a new location brings with it and those that do not or do not care. You can't be 100% that one group understand something better than another

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I can. I can look at the measure of their group's success or failure as represented by their respective per capita income/crime rates/etc, etc.

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Originally Posted by Ash

Cockney is dying out, Ganps. The yoots speak ... something else now.

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innit tho, fam. blud.

like that massive **** on AFTV

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

Point taken.

I have a Sikh mate from Huddersfield who now lives in Stokey but has a broad Yorkshire accent. As I said to him, he now lives in a City where no-one cares about his race or religion by everyone will think he speaks funny until the day he dies.

I just object to the idea that his London-accented kids, born of his white, London missus, would be considered less English by some, simply on the basis of their mixed-race skin colour, than some white northerner.

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I can't really get my head around it as I've always been treated as an outsider by the indigenous population because I'm 100% bogwog, and I'm as white as they come :shrug:

Come to think of it, I still don't understand bread sauce so I'm not properly English really. :-(

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Originally Posted by Sir C

I can't really get my head around it as I've always been treated as an outsider by the indigenous population because I'm 100% bogwog, and I'm as white as they come :shrug:

Come to think of it, I still don't understand bread sauce so I'm not properly English really. :-(

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more worryingly.

it appears that 1% of London town's population is Jockish :yikes:

https://www.nomisweb.co.uk/reports/l...pare=E12000007

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Originally Posted by Burney

A continually evolving identity is not an identity at all. It is, in fact, the denial of identity.

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So your personal identity hasn't changed during your life?

Of course what it means to be British has changed over the centuries. Think in terms of religion alone.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

I can't really get my head around it as I've always been treated as an outsider by the indigenous population because I'm 100% bogwog, and I'm as white as they come :shrug:

Come to think of it, I still don't understand bread sauce so I'm not properly English really. :-(

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I've always thought of you as a bit swarthy, tbh.

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Originally Posted by IUFG

more worryingly.

it appears that 1% of London town's population is Jockish :yikes:

https://www.nomisweb.co.uk/reports/l...pare=E12000007

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Christ. None of us are safe in our beds. :-(