ah yes, you are c React. So they were both bent then :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokster
That is 3 out of 3- full house.
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ah yes, you are c React. So they were both bent then :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokster
That is 3 out of 3- full house.
The clearest proof that the whole thing was bent was that united's entire game plan was based on Riley doing exactly what he did.Quote:
Originally Posted by IUFG
People will happily tell you these days that united were simply muscling us out of the game because we don't like it up them. This completely ignores the fact that that Arsenal side were a handful and were not the sort to be intimidated.
The truth is unted's game plan was based on kicking us as hard and as often as possible to disrupt the game, injure players and hopefully to get us to retaliate, knowing full well that their players would not get punished whatever they did (see Neville, Rio, van nistelrooy) whereas if a single Arsenal player had reacted badly they would have been sent off.
United constructed their entire game plan on the ref giving them everything they wanted. That is a hell of a risk unless you KNOW you can rely on it.
From the Angry ofIslington blog :
"A few Arsenal players questioned the linesman while Cole was being treated, and the linesman certainly had a better chance of seeing it than the ref. But from the linesman’s angle (facing Cole directly) at full speed, when maybe he was concentrating on his main jobs of seeing who the ball last came off and whether anyone was offside, I can see why he missed it. Maybe he shouldn’t have missed it, but it’s feasible that he did. You may not believe me about the speed. All I can say is go and watch it again yourself."
8-)
Dunno. If players see a referee isn't going to punish them to commit fouls, it will embolden them to commit more and worse fouls. I think United got that sense after a couple of the early 'reducers' on JAR went unpunished and it got worse from there. Equally, linesmen will take their lead from the ref.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
In short, I don't believe the game was bent because 'cui bono?' I do, however, believe that Riley was biased (consciously or unconsciously) against Arsenal and refereed accordingly. Still disgraceful, but not 'bent' in the sense of there being a conspiracy.
What I did find extraordinary, though, was the determination of the media to largely ignore the appalling refereeing of such a big game. I can only conclude that this was because they realised most of their audience (and football more widely) wanted Arsenal to lose and so they didn't want to question the legitimacy of that result by pointing out that it was probably the most dreadfully biased and incompetent refereeing display in the history of the Premier League.
I have watched it myself- not a chance in hell. The linesman is perfectly positioned and is looking directly at the bal, which is bouncing directly in line with Cole's shin. The linesman is looking directly at the Ballard therefore directly at Cole's shin. He sees the incident perfectly. Van Nistelrooy is heading back away from goal, offside is completely irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viva Prat Vegas
It doesnt happen at particularly high speed. I am sorry, if a guy cant see that then. He cant see anything at all. I wouldn't trust him to drive a bike let alone run the line in a professional match.
He saw it perfectly.
I dont really buy that at all. I am not saying that Riley was on the payroll. I am saying that United knew full well before the game that they could seriously take the piss and he wouldn't lift a finger. Either through indirect influence, sheer pressure or just because they knew Riley was hopelessly weak. You can see this in how they pressure him after every awful challenge. Neville goes up and screams in his face after hacking Reyes to the floor or the third time. What on earth is he complaining about? How can he possibly be angry about something?Quote:
Originally Posted by Burney
This was not the usual example of a ref being a 'homer'... it was the clearest possible example of a referee being simply unwilling to give any kind of decision against one side and that side being very, very confident that that was the case.
I think the premier league should be eternally ashamed of the fact that the longest unbeaten run in its history was brought to an end in this fashion.
The media chose to focus on the pizza incident afterwards instead- hard to believe but somehow we came out of this game as the bad guys!
I doubt ManU went into the game confident that Riley would cheat for them, however in the back of their minds they also knew what his record was for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
The key point in the match was probably the Cole yellow. The Munichs had just spent about 10-15 minutes kicking Reyes off the park and G Neville probably should have seen red at that point, yet they hadn't received a card of any kind. At that point Cole commits a slightly cynical, non-violent foul and gets a yellow.
I'm guessing that at that point they all thought to themselves 'game on - this is 12 v 11' and then proceeded to act accordingly over the rest of the game.
But shouldn't we move on? No one was angrier than I, no one remains as bitter and twisted as I (well, maybe IUFG) but surely we should get over this? I mean, it really isn't healthy. :-(
I think lots of factors came into play. Ferguson certainly told them to target our players and probably said Riley 'lets the game flow' at OT, so you'll probably get away with it. I agree it was the worst example of bias and incompetence I've ever seen in a top English game, I'm just saying I don't think its bentness was planned or orchestrated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
As I say, the media reaction was the most extraordinary thing. Normally, TV can't stop poring over bad refereeing, but here it was simply glossed over. It was genuinely weird and ensured that I'll never believe there isn't an anti-Arsenal bias in the media.
I think we would get over it if it was ever accepted that it happened. It continues to eat at people because it was roundly ignored.Quote:
Originally Posted by World's End Stella
THe problem with your argument is that Cole's challenge was a yellow card. A fairly soft one, but a deliberate kick with no attempt to play the ball. You are highlighting about the only decision Riley got right in the whole game!
I think it is incredibly generous to think that United's approach to that game was accidental, or opportunist. Particularly having seen them do it time and time again against us at Old Trafford (never at Highbury) and had seen it work pretty much all the time. Vieira's sending off, the soft penalty, the game in 2002 when Van Nistelrooy came on for twenty minutes and, if I remember correctly, committed two blatant red card offences (one a punch in Frieddie's chest right in front of the ref) and at least three other yellow card offences and not get so much as a booking.
I think there were bigger stories than poor refereeing. THe most obvious one was the end of the unbeaten run- people love to see a team taken down a peg or two so the public probably enjoyed it. Secondly, I think a lot of people hadn't forgiven us for the fight att he end of the game the season before. Ferguson managed to manipulate this to look as though we had 'gotten away with it'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burney
The press wanted another fight and so they focused on the pizza incident rather than the game.
I wouldn't agree there is a broad anti Arsenal agenda in the media. I do think there was a huge bulk of the media that was pro United and pro Ferguson, or at least too scared to criticise him/them.