understand the game and have played it at a certain level, the touch on the finish for the third was the sort of thing that Cruyff and Maradonna did a few times in their career, whereas Messi does it on an ongoing basis.
He is the greatest player the game has ever seen, and those of you who think otherwise need a new hobby.
:shrug:
You must be disappointed with your boys' performance, though. Surely they were nailed on to beat Trinidad?Quote:
Originally Posted by World's End Stella
Maradona was better, was never afforded the protection from the officials that the current fancy-dans get.Quote:
Originally Posted by World's End Stella
How many matches of Cruyff's and Maradonna's careers did you watch, out of interest?Quote:
Originally Posted by World's End Stella
Not too bothered, really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir C
Second in group E, eh? Are your relatives in Copenhagen worried?
Nah, you're just doing that 'a player of my generation couldn't possibly be the best ever' thing. Most people do it to be fair, but in this case we should be able to get over it.Quote:
Originally Posted by PSRB
Maradonna's goal against England in 86, as an example. You could find Messi scoring goals like that almost every week for Barca for a few years there.
We take him for granted just because we've seen so much of it that it's hard to put in a historical context.
Never saw Cruyff play, so can have no opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by World's End Stella
Maradona won a world cup while carrying 10 other players.
Messi's a little fairy-boy who looks like his mammy cuts his hair. Also, 'Lionel' is a ridiculous name.
No, I think Messi is better than CR7, Cruyff, Pele (not that I've seen that much of him), etc. Just think Maradona was better. Used to look forward to watching him every weekend on C4. Messi also gets far more exposure than Maradona didQuote:
Originally Posted by World's End Stella
Also took a very average Napoli side to the ScudettoQuote:
Originally Posted by Burney
The problem is that you are Canadian so haven't played the game at any level at allQuote:
Originally Posted by World's End Stella
In a previous job several of my colleagues would call me Lionel on a routine basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burney
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7n1-batJPU
Also, my grandma's last boyfriend was called Lionel.
:hehe: gpwmQuote:
Originally Posted by Pokster
:nod: And all while using absolutely terrifying quantities of cocaine and fvcking every hooker south of the Austrian border. Imagine how good he could have been if he'd been sober! :yikes:Quote:
Originally Posted by PSRB
It's acceptable for old men to be called Lionel - particularly old, Jewish men. The best footballer in the world, however, has no business being called Lionel. It's just wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Monty92
One of the reasons people choose him over Messi, I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burney
Messi is the better player imo but there is no question that Maradonna is the more interesting 'character'.
Many of Maradonna's - pretty much all his matches in the 82, 86 and 90 world cups and Italian football was always pretty popular in Canada back in the day, they had games on the telly every weekend. Quite the large Italian Canadian population in Toronto.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash
Cruyff I saw little of. Danish football just didn't have the following needed to have it televised in Canada back then. :shrug:
'Danish'? :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by World's End Stella
Nothing to do with 'character'. It's about achievements on the pitch. Maradona performed miracles with teams of ordinary players around him. Messi's achievements have been in teams full of superstars.Quote:
Originally Posted by World's End Stella
It's t'other way about, I reckon; had he remained sober, we'd never even have heard of him. Everyone needs a motivation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burney
Couldn't work out if that was :fishing: or if he is just a thick yankQuote:
Originally Posted by Burney
So you were in the country while some people were watching some Italian football which may or may not have involved the little drug cheat. Than there's the other half of his club career. I put it to you that you cannot possibly say how many times he took a touch like the little accountant last night.Quote:
Originally Posted by World's End Stella
Right. A sign of the times, innit. There was a real ecstaticness and rarity about Maradona's play and achievements which Messi's patently lack, being much more robotic and, dare I say it, professional in nature.Quote:
Originally Posted by World's End Stella
I assumed it would be your mate that bit, if I'm honest :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Burney
Messi performs miracles far more often than Maradonna did, his teammates certainly contributed to that however that doesn't change the fact that for a few years he was routinely performing at a level that Maradonna achieved only rarely even when at Barca.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burney
Comparison of players from very different eras is a futile exercise.
'Even when at Barca'? His early spell at Barca was one of the least happy of his career. He was in his pomp as a club footballer while at Napoli.Quote:
Originally Posted by World's End Stella
Based on this and other stuff you've come out with, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you've no fvcking idea what you're on about. :thumbup:
Of course, but so is most discussion of football amongst fans when it comes down to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SWv2
He was at Barca, the fact that he made little of his time there should surely factor into analysis of his career and can't simply be dismissed because it is inconsistent with your view.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burney
And I love the idea that he spent his career surrounded by ordinary players. Because the Argentinian national team is routinely populated by utterly average players. :hehe:
Based on this, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you've no fvcking idea what you're on about.
ANY discussion of football which attempts to argue such questions as 'best player' or 'biggest club' can be immediately dismissed as the deranged droolings of a retard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash
Sure. But that doesn't stop it being very much the lifeblood of discussion among football fans. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir C
Oh, I have no issues with football fans grunting such nonsense at each other; I simply leave them to it and refuse to engage in such a futile activity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burney
Not even when someone suggests Johan Cruyff was Danish? :-(Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir C
As bait goes it's pretty unattractive, to be honest. Danes are simply Krautlites; all the Nazism but none of the good beer and sausage. No one in their right mind could confuse a Cloggie with a Dane.Quote:
Originally Posted by World's End Stella
At the risk of getting into a level of detail that's over your head (i.e. any), Valdano and Burruchaga were decent, but that's pretty much it. And Napoli were really nothing special. Pretty much every authority agrees on Maradona's ability to drag unpromising teams to levels of achievement they'd never have got near without him. This makes him unique in the pantheon of greats. After all, Cruyff had a great side around him, as did Pele and Messi has had the same. Maradona stands out by his ability to achieve great things without that support.Quote:
Originally Posted by World's End Stella
You may dispute his greatness all you like, but history bears this out. :shrug:
Miracles :hehe: What ****ing planet are you on?Quote:
Originally Posted by World's End Stella
You also aware I am sure that Barcelona were not the club they are today - they were in fact pretty ordinary, winning only two league titles between 1960 and 1991 in fact
That was a fact in factQuote:
Originally Posted by Luis Anaconda
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luis Anaconda
I've a strong suspicion that prior to this exchange, young WES had absolutely no idea whatsoever of what Maradona did or didn't do at Barcelona - or what they were like as a side. After all he did appear to turn 180 degrees in his assessment of Diego's performance there in the space of two posts.
He literally went from saying Maradona had never reached Messi's heights 'even while at Barca' to criticising him for 'making little of his time there' prompted solely by me pointing out that it was pretty much the nadir of his club career.
In short, WES is bullsh1tting something fierce here. :hehe:
Wrong on all accounts, I'm afraid. I was fully aware that Diego had spent several years under-achieving at Barca, other than a rather terrific fight involving all sorts of kicking which still makes me smile when I see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burney
The point I made, which you seem to have misunderstood, was that he had not spent his career surrounded by average players at Napoli and with Argentina, he went to Barca and had little success and you can hardly argue that Barca were a small club hence 'even at Barca'.
And as I said, I'm not judging him solely on his time there, merely pointing out that it needs to be considered. As I also said in another thread, I consider him the second best player in history, second only to Messi, so it's not like I don't recognize his genius.
Can't believe we have got to 4 pages of a football thread you started, when we all know that you know the square root of fucvk all about football :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by World's End Stella
This won?Quote:
Originally Posted by World's End Stella
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEeMSBy8EW0
some neat foot work in there, I have to say.