So it seems our chums in the ever-democratic EU are threatening to suspend Poland's

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

As an ardent Europhile, that was the one thing that completely outraged me. I had no way of even starting to justify it.

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Yes. It made it pretty much impossible to counter the argument that Germany calls the shots in the EU, for one thing.

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Originally Posted by Burney

They want to be pushed around by Germany? Really?

I'd always known such people were misguided, but I generally have assumed they were at least sincerely misguided. You are suggesting that they are actively treasonous. :-(

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Oh, sure. And there's plenty of both sorts.

Naturally they distrust their own government more than some (any!) other government which they don't know so well and have less experience of.

The fears of today are always greater than the fears for tomorrow, as the man said.

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Originally Posted by Burney

That would have rather more validity had the EU not studiously ignored it when the previous, pro-EU Polish government undertook similar measures.

Besides, it's the optics that are the real problem here. They are now being seen to be overtly interfering in the internal governance of a member country because they don't like its government's policies. This sort of naked attack on democratic sovereignty makes explicit to people just what an appalling shítshow the EU really is, which can only be good.

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Not knowing what the specific issue is that you are referring to, I'm guessing you could rephrase what you posted as 'they have expressed concern that an EU member state is proposing something that is inconsistent with the state's EU membership'.

And they have every right to do that, as I said, if you want to be in the club. I notice the EU expressing concern about the threat to democracy in Turkey and the impact that would have on their attempt to join the EU. I don't hear many criticising them for that 'interference'.

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Originally Posted by Peter

People only complain about a lack of democracy when they don't like something.

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:hehe: Well, quite.

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Originally Posted by Peter

You appear to be suggesting that it is as democratic as it can afford to be. I would agree.

People only complain about a lack of democracy when they don't like something. People are ****s.

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Especially if that something is Germans, you'd think?

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Originally Posted by Sir C

K! Will do.

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You've made me feel guilty now. :-(

You c*nt. :-)

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

Not knowing what the specific issue is that you are referring to, I'm guessing you could rephrase what you posted as 'they have expressed concern that an EU member state is proposing something that is inconsistent with the state's EU membership'.

And they have every right to do that, as I said, if you want to be in the club. I notice the EU expressing concern about the threat to democracy in Turkey and the impact that would have on their attempt to join the EU. I don't hear many criticising them for that 'interference'.

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No, they have said they are considering invoking Article 7 for the first time in their history to suspend Poland's voting rights.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Right. So you concede that it is undemocratic because it cannot be otherwise and function?

That isn't a reason why it isn't undemocratic, it is simply a reason for it being so.

Given which, you'll understand why those of us to whom the principles of democratic government actually matter had no alternative other than to vote Leave?

Glad we've sorted that out.

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The principles of democratic government. What are these, exactly?

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Originally Posted by Burney

:hehe: Well, quite.

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Glad we have sorted that out. So you admit its the EU you hate, not the fact that its undemocratic.

Principles of democratic government, my arse :)

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Originally Posted by Burney

EU voting rights because they don't like some measures that Poland's democratically-elected government are taking.

This should be fun.

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Yeah, when so-called democratically elected govt starts enacting measures to curb democracy, you have a problem. #AdolphHitler1933