I have decided to stop identifying as a football fan.

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Originally Posted by WES

Ethnicity, indigenous, immigrant and all that aside, what he said is true for the large majority of the biggest cities in the western world.

I love NYC but most Americans would tell you that it doesn't reflect a typical American city at all. Same is true of Toronto, Paris and Madrid to name but three more.

Point is, who cares? :shrug:

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Who cares? People who lived or grew up in that city when it wasn't like that and preferred it that way. Me, for one. :shrug:

This idea that cosmopolitan diversity is great is not universally shared. Some of us feel something important has been lost.

And anyone who tells you Paris is a better city now than it was 30 years ago is a fúcking idiot, by the way.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Who cares? People who lived or grew up in that city when it wasn't like that and preferred it that way. Me, for one. :shrug:

This idea that cosmopolitan diversity is great is not universally shared. Some of us feel something important has been lost.

And anyone who tells you Paris is a better city now than it was 30 years ago is a fúcking idiot, by the way.

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I know that this come as hard to believe... not everyone thinks the same way as you about this

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Originally Posted by Burney

Who cares? People who lived or grew up in that city when it wasn't like that and preferred it that way. Me, for one. :shrug:

This idea that cosmopolitan diversity is great is not universally shared. Some of us feel something important has been lost.

And anyone who tells you Paris is a better city now than it was 30 years ago is a fúcking idiot, by the way.

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Oh, I would never argue that there aren't people who would prefer it to go back to what it was, only that the point has no practical outcome. We aren't exactly going to start deporting people because they aren't ethnically English or French or whatever, are we?

NYC is miles better than it was 30 years ago, BTW. And I expect Paris is as well. You're thinking about ethnicity only, I think. 30 years ago Paris was a stinking mass with appalling infrastructure. I know many people who visited it back then and hated it because of the people, the smell etc. NYC is much better in no small part because of the sort of people you are objecting to (Trump as well). If you threw out all the illegal Mexican immigrants in NYC the locals would be devastated by the impact on their lives.

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Originally Posted by Pokster

I know that this come as hard to believe... not everyone thinks the same way as you about this

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Where did I say they did? :shrug:

I simply said it was a perfectly reasonable (and demonstrably factual) point that Cleese was making and that his feelings are echoed by many, many people.

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Originally Posted by WES

Oh, I would never argue that there aren't people who would prefer it to go back to what it was, only that the point has no practical outcome. We aren't exactly going to start deporting people because they aren't ethnically English or French or whatever, are we?

NYC is miles better than it was 30 years ago, BTW. And I expect Paris is as well. You're thinking about ethnicity only, I think. 30 years ago Paris was a stinking mass with appalling infrastructure. I know many people who visited it back then and hated it because of the people, the smell etc. NYC is much better in no small part because of the sort of people you are objecting to (Trump as well). If you threw out all the illegal Mexican immigrants in NYC the locals would be devastated by the impact on their lives.

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I've no idea about NYC and don't much care as it's not somewhere that interests me. You are 100% wrong about Paris, though. So much so that it's not even worth arguing about, tbh.

And the point that is being made - and is well worth making - is that greater diversity does not make for a better city. It simply makes for a more ethnically diverse city in which indigenous people do not want to live.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Who cares? People who lived or grew up in that city when it wasn't like that and preferred it that way. Me, for one. :shrug:

This idea that cosmopolitan diversity is great is not universally shared. Some of us feel something important has been lost.

And anyone who tells you Paris is a better city now than it was 30 years ago is a fúcking idiot, by the way.

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So, you never lived in a foreign city and spoken English on the trains/tubes etc?

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Originally Posted by Burney

I've no idea about NYC and don't much care as it's not somewhere that interests me. You are 100% wrong about Paris, though. So much so that it's not even worth arguing about, tbh.

And the point that is being made - and is well worth making - is that greater diversity does not make for a better city. It simply makes for a more ethnically diverse city in which indigenous people do not want to live.

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Other than the Church having burnt (damn those Muslamic ninjas) I found no difference centre-ville between now and the '90s.

I haven't been to the suburbs (and I only lived in one for a month in 1997, so it wouldn't have been a fair comparison.)

But I've lived in the centre for 3 different periods in the '90s and again for the last 2 years. Sod all has changed.

Other than those sodding green scooters cluttering up the streets.

Oh, there's more homelessness, just like central London. But they're all immigrants. If that's what you're referring to then yes, there are more immigrants on the streets than before. But in terms of quality of life for the natives or us travellers/ex-pats, nada.

The city's become more international, more foreign lingos spoken. But as long as you have the cash to pay your way, the natives are happy.

The major globally connected cities are going to become ever more internationalised, and there's nothing you or Farrage can do to stop this.

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Originally Posted by Burney

I've no idea about NYC and don't much care as it's not somewhere that interests me. You are 100% wrong about Paris, though. So much so that it's not even worth arguing about, tbh.

And the point that is being made - and is well worth making - is that greater diversity does not make for a better city. It simply makes for a more ethnically diverse city in which indigenous people do not want to live.

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In which some (a fairly small minority) indigenous people do not want to live.