Apparently, the permanently outraged are complaining about 'Gunpowder' on BBC1

They say that the scenes of being pressed to death and hung, drawn and quartered were too violent and gory. One woman even said she was sick.

This seems odd to me, as I've read a fair bit around the period and its judicial punishments and in fact was complaining that the scenes in question were far too tame. The hanging, drawing and quartering in particular was far too quick. All over in seconds it was. The chap didn't even have his genitals chopped off and burned in front of him. The disembowelling was done very quickly and he was dead in no time. It was nowhere near drawn out and agonising enough. The executioner would have been in real trouble if he'd underperformed like that.

These people who complained really do need to be reminded that what they're moaning about is a very anodyne version of the true horrors people are capable of inflicting on one another. God help them if they ever have to witness representations of actual punishments of the time such as flaying alive (where boiling water was thrown over the victim to loosen up the skin before it was ripped off by tongs), breaking on the wheel (where the trussed-up victim simply had all their bones smashed with a metal bar), or the one where red hot pincers were used to rip muscle, sinews and tendons away from the still-living body for as much as an hour before death.

Human beings, eh? Lovely lot. :hehe:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Burney

They say that the scenes of being pressed to death and hung, drawn and quartered were too violent and gory. One woman even said she was sick.

This seems odd to me, as I've read a fair bit around the period and its judicial punishments and in fact was complaining that the scenes in question were far too tame. The hanging, drawing and quartering in particular was far too quick. All over in seconds it was. The chap didn't even have his genitals chopped off and burned in front of him. The disembowelling was done very quickly and he was dead in no time. It was nowhere near drawn out and agonising enough. The executioner would have been in real trouble if he'd underperformed like that.

These people who complained really do need to be reminded that what they're moaning about is a very anodyne version of the true horrors people are capable of inflicting on one another. God help them if they ever have to witness representations of actual punishments of the time such as flaying alive (where boiling water was thrown over the victim to loosen up the skin before it was ripped off by tongs), breaking on the wheel (where the trussed-up victim simply had all their bones smashed with a metal bar), or the one where red hot pincers were used to rip muscle, sinews and tendons away from the still-living body for as much as an hour before death.

Human beings, eh? Lovely lot. :hehe:

---

I've got that recorded. I understand there has been some outrage about the sight of a naked lady, as well.

A naked lady! Oh, the humanity!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Burney

They say that the scenes of being pressed to death and hung, drawn and quartered were too violent and gory. One woman even said she was sick.

This seems odd to me, as I've read a fair bit around the period and its judicial punishments and in fact was complaining that the scenes in question were far too tame. The hanging, drawing and quartering in particular was far too quick. All over in seconds it was. The chap didn't even have his genitals chopped off and burned in front of him. The disembowelling was done very quickly and he was dead in no time. It was nowhere near drawn out and agonising enough. The executioner would have been in real trouble if he'd underperformed like that.

These people who complained really do need to be reminded that what they're moaning about is a very anodyne version of the true horrors people are capable of inflicting on one another. God help them if they ever have to witness representations of actual punishments of the time such as flaying alive (where boiling water was thrown over the victim to loosen up the skin before it was ripped off by tongs), breaking on the wheel (where the trussed-up victim simply had all their bones smashed with a metal bar), or the one where red hot pincers were used to rip muscle, sinews and tendons away from the still-living body for as much as an hour before death.

Human beings, eh? Lovely lot. :hehe:

---

****ing hell, b. Its barely 10 am and I am only on my second cup of tea.

I have never been entirely clear what quartering is. Also, the hanging part- is this just strangling the chap for a bit at the start? Compared to what is coming up that seems a little dull.

I dont need to hear any more about flaying......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peter

****ing hell, b. Its barely 10 am and I am only on my second cup of tea.

I have never been entirely clear what quartering is. Also, the hanging part- is this just strangling the chap for a bit at the start? Compared to what is coming up that seems a little dull.

I dont need to hear any more about flaying......

---

Read an account of a breaking at the wheel. A human being reduced to a shrieking, quivering octopus-like jelly... :-(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sir C

Read an account of a breaking at the wheel. A human being reduced to a shrieking, quivering octopus-like jelly... :-(

---

I think I am going to be sick....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peter

****ing hell, b. Its barely 10 am and I am only on my second cup of tea.

I have never been entirely clear what quartering is. Also, the hanging part- is this just strangling the chap for a bit at the start? Compared to what is coming up that seems a little dull.

I dont need to hear any more about flaying......

---

Oh, the quartering was the easy bit, since one was usually dead by that stage. It simply meant being hacked into various pieces that could then be sent to various parts of the kingdom and spiked on the city gates.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sir C

Read an account of a breaking at the wheel. A human being reduced to a shrieking, quivering octopus-like jelly... :-(

---

Yes. Mind you, if you weren't strangled first and didn't die of smoke inhalation, burning at the stake was no picnic, either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sir C

I've got that recorded. I understand there has been some outrage about the sight of a naked lady, as well.

A naked lady! Oh, the humanity!

---

She was quite an old lady. And then she got pressed to death. That was also too quick - albeit accurately done.

Mind you, pressing (or 'peine forte et dure') was more usually reserved for those who refused to enter a plea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Burney

She was quite an old lady. And then she got pressed to death. That was also too quick - albeit accurately done.

Mind you, pressing (or 'peine forte et dure') was more usually reserved for those who refused to enter a plea.

---

Toning down the torture aside - was it actually any good. Meant to watch it on Saturday but forgot it was on

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Luis Anaconda

Toning down the torture aside - was it actually any good. Meant to watch it on Saturday but forgot it was on

---

It was OK. Mind you, it didn't do anything to suggest that Kim Harington's range extends very far beyond sounding a bit moody in a northern accent. Unlike in GoT, the programme makers also did nothing to disguise his lack of inches. Pretty much every other character - male and female - towered over him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Burney

Oh, the quartering was the easy bit, since one was usually dead by that stage. It simply meant being hacked into various pieces that could then be sent to various parts of the kingdom and spiked on the city gates.

---

I get the general idea. Aside from the head, what can you really put on a spike? A Left leg? A bit of torso?

The rack doesnt appear to be a day at the beach either. All in all, torture seems quite unpleasant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peter

I get the general idea. Aside from the head, what can you really put on a spike? A Left leg? A bit of torso?

The rack doesnt appear to be a day at the beach either. All in all, torture seems quite unpleasant.

---

Yeah, basically, they'd joint you like a piece of meat and stick your bits out to rot - except your head, which they'd tar first to preserve it.

Actually, one of the most effective tortures was simply hanging someone with their arms behind them. The dislocation of the shoulders would happen gradually and the pain would be exquisite without the torturer really having to put any effort in. The bastinado (or beating of the soles of the feet) was very effective, too.

Mind you, according to the Spanish Inquisition records, most people gave in at the point when they were being shown the instruments of torture.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Burney

Yeah, basically, they'd joint you like a piece of meat and stick your bits out to rot - except your head, which they'd tar first to preserve it.

Actually, one of the most effective tortures was simply hanging someone with their arms behind them. The dislocation of the shoulders would happen gradually and the pain would be exquisite without the torturer really having to put any effort in. The bastinado (or beating of the soles of the feet) was very effective, too.

Mind you, according to the Spanish Inquisition records, most people gave in at the point when they were being shown the instruments of torture.

---

Pfff, quitters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sir C

Pfff, quitters.

---

Spaniards, innit. No backbone. :shrug:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Burney

It was OK. Mind you, it didn't do anything to suggest that Kim Harington's range extends very far beyond sounding a bit moody in a northern accent. Unlike in GoT, the programme makers also did nothing to disguise his lack of inches. Pretty much every other character - male and female - towered over him.

---

:hehe: Almost worth watching for that

And let us not forget b, it was not that long ago