I see John Cleese has unleashed a shítstorm by the simple expedient of stating a fact

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

So your personal identity hasn't changed during your life?

Of course what it means to be British has changed over the centuries. Think in terms of religion alone.

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Over the centuries, yes. Over the space of a few years is a quite different matter. This, in fact, is the great divide in our country now - between the big cities and everywhere else, basically. The real England exists outside the cities - a fact reflected constantly in voting patterns.

I would recommend 'The Road To Somewhere' by David Goodhart on this subject.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Road-Somewh.../dp/1849047995

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Originally Posted by Burney

I wouldn't restrict it to skin colour. There are very successful immigrant groups who are non-white - the Hindus being the best example. However, their success has been based on strenuous efforts to integrate with the indigenous culture.

And those 'large scale' immigrations you mention are nothing - NOTHING - on the scale of what has happened in London since 1997.

Also, it's worth noting that Irish people were actually British in the 19th and early 20th century - so not immigrants. You Brits forget that so easily. ;-)

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Technically they weren't British. They were Irish and citizens of the United Kingdom.

They were also catholic and some of them didn't even speak bleeding English! And they were very unpopular.

Still are with some people. ditto the Jews.....

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[QUOTE=Burney;4240725]London is the capital city of England and the principal city of the United Kingdom. For it not to reflect the wider country in ethnic, cultural or linguistic terms is an anomalous situation to say the least. And, given the degree to which it now fails to reflect the wider country, it is fair comment to argue that it has ceased in those terms at least to be an English city.[QUOTE]

The point here is that John Cleese said London is no longer an English city. You are saying that it is a fact that there are more non-indigenous people in London than indigenous. You have not provided any basis for this other than what can only amount to a "feeling"

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Originally Posted by Burney

I can. I can look at the measure of their group's success or failure as represented by their respective per capita income/crime rates/etc, etc.

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I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just challenging your method of determination. Your use of the word integration is almost unquantifiable.

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Originally Posted by Peter

Technically they weren't British. They were Irish and citizens of the United Kingdom.

They were also catholic and some of them didn't even speak bleeding English! And they were very unpopular.

Still are with some people. ditto the Jews.....

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Sorry, but the Acts of Union with Ireland took place in 1800, so any Irish person between that point and 1922 was, by definition, British.

[QUOTE=Alberto Balsam Rodriguez;4240989][QUOTE=Burney;4240725]London is the capital city of England and the principal city of the United Kingdom. For it not to reflect the wider country in ethnic, cultural or linguistic terms is an anomalous situation to say the least. And, given the degree to which it now fails to reflect the wider country, it is fair comment to argue that it has ceased in those terms at least to be an English city.

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The point here is that John Cleese said London is no longer an English city. You are saying that it is a fact that there are more non-indigenous people in London than indigenous. You have not provided any basis for this other than what can only amount to a "feeling"





I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just challenging your method of determination. Your use of the word integration is almost unquantifiable.

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The 2011 Census is the basis for that assertion. Look it up if you don't believe me. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Burney

Sorry, but the Acts of Union with Ireland took place in 1800, so any Irish person between that point and 1922 was, by definition, British.

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The union of the kingdoms of Britain and Ireland. Two countries United under the crown. Just as the current United Kingdom is of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is part of the UK (a nation state). It is not geographically a part of Britain (by definition) nor is it politically a part of Britain because Britain does not exist as a political entity. Its a region of a nation state.

I did say technically.... :)

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Originally Posted by Peter

The union of the kingdoms of Britain and Ireland. Two countries United under the crown. Just as the current United Kingdom is of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is part of the UK (a nation state). It is not geographically a part of Britain (by definition) nor is it politically a part of Britain because Britain does not exist as a political entity. Its a region of a nation state.

I did say technically.... :)

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But - and this is actually the point - the people were Britons. They were British. Unlike Indians or Africans who were colonised, they were British. So therefore their movement from one part of the Kingdom to another cannot be termed immigration any more than it could if people from Yorkshire moved to London.

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Originally Posted by Burney

But - and this is actually the point - the people were Britons. They were British. Unlike Indians or Africans who were colonised, they were British. So therefore their movement from one part of the Kingdom to another cannot be termed immigration any more than it could if people from Yorkshire moved to London.

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You need to wind yer feckin neck you bog dwelling Mick ... and .............

Relax yer gums!

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Originally Posted by Herbert Augustus Chapman

You need to wind yer feckin neck you bog dwelling Mick ... and .............

Relax yer gums!

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:hehe: I think Relax yer fúcking gums is the second great phrase AFTV has given the world alongside 'Bantered us off with shíthousery'