Shooting of several people on a tram in Utrecht.

Place your bets, gentlemen.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Place your bets, gentlemen.

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It's right wingers now

Ronaldo etc

Dutch mentaller goes mental in his Dutchland

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Originally Posted by Pat Vegas

Ronaldo etc

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Left winger, shirley?

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Originally Posted by Burney

Place your bets, gentlemen.

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I look forward to the next Islamist attack being blamed on Melanie Phillips.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

I look forward to the next Islamist attack being blamed on Melanie Phillips.

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In the sheer orgy of glee with which the left seized upon Christchurch to blame pretty much everyone they disagree with, they do seem to have missed the fact that, once you establish a direct causal link between expressed ideas and a terrorist's acts, it gives you no logical wriggle-room the next time someone blames Islamic terrorism on Islam and the Koran.

Not that they have the intellectual honesty to admit this, of course.

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Originally Posted by Burney

In the sheer orgy of glee with which the left seized upon Christchurch to blame pretty much everyone they disagree with, they do seem to have missed the fact that, once you establish a direct causal link between expressed ideas and a terrorist's acts, it gives you no logical wriggle-room the next time someone blames Islamic terrorism on Islam and the Koran.

Not that they have the intellectual honesty to admit this, of course.

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But that's always been an easy one for them to deflect. They simply apply bad faith by insisting that we use criticism of Islam as cover for our true motive which is to demonise all Muslims.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

But that's always been an easy one for them to deflect. They simply apply bad faith by insisting that we use criticism of Islam to give us cover for our real motive which is to demonise all Muslims.

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No, that deflects nothing. Accusing your opposition of opportunistic dishonesty while being opportunistically dishonest doesn't get you off the hook.

'Bad faith' is a good one, btw. :hehe:

Didn't Bad Faith appear on Top Of The Pops some time in the 80s?

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Originally Posted by Burney

No, that deflects nothing. Accusing your opposition of opportunistic dishonesty while being opportunistically dishonest doesn't get you off the hook.

'Bad faith' is a good one, btw. :hehe:

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But there is an intrinsic asymmetry to what you just described that does make it effective.

Suggesting that Melanie Phillips is inherently hateful and enables far right violence comes with absolutely no stigma or social penalty. Suggesting that Islam is inherently hateful and enables violence among its followers does.

While that remains the case, those on our side of the fence will always be on the back foot.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

But there is an intrinsic asymmetry to what you just described that does make it effective.

Suggesting that Melanie Phillips is inherently hateful and enables far right violence comes with absolutely no stigma or social penalty. Suggesting that Islam is inherently hateful and enables violence among its followers does.

While that remains the case, those on our side of the fence will always be on the back foot.

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That's simply a function of the left's very effective takeover of education, academia and the media, though. Those things mean it's not a level playing field and any attempt to demand intellectual consistency will always be an uphill battle.

The mere fact that this point has not been made at any point in any mainstream discussion is ample proof that the environment does not allow dissent.

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Originally Posted by IUFG

Left winger, shirley?

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Centre forward imo

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Originally Posted by Burney

... any attempt to demand intellectual consistency will always be an uphill battle.

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Don't look back in anger. Move on. Don't hate.

All whataboutery, I think you'll find.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Place your bets, gentlemen.

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If you had, Allan.......wd, you're correct.*


*Based on the photo Dutch police have released