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Well, there isn’t really one :-| One mandate splits the two main blocks and both want to govern but don’t want to work with The Swedish Democrats who are on the outside looking in. The socialists have resorted to begging the opposition not to be an opposition :hehe:
Who'da guessed that result..?Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Goat Sverige
It’s pretty much a carbon copy of 2014 albeit slightly closer in the voting between the two blocks. At some point either side will have to give in and work with the “nazis”. The funny thing is the Social Democrats and Swedish Democrats are pretty close in terms of policies, even when it comes to immigration. It’s the whole “Nazi” stigma which is what’s keeping them from forming a coalition. Had they not had that history and were just an anti-immigration party they’d probably be ironing out the details on a coalition this morning.Quote:
Originally Posted by IUFG
The question being whether that result will force the other parties to adopt more right-wing policies or whether they will simply carry on blithely wrecking the country?Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Goat Sverige
Hard to know right now. In either block you have immigration extremists. The Centre Party in the centre right block are very pro-immigration as are the Greens and the Left Party in the other centre left block. The Centre Party helped the centre left block (the Social Democrats were forced into it by the Greens and Left Party) push through a bill allowing Afghan “children” who had applied for asylum prior to 2016 but are now over 18, to stay in Sweden if they enrolled at a college regardless of whether their application gets rejected because they are now over 18 and no longer entitled to the extra protection being a child refugee grants you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burney
This is the sort of **** we have to deal with.
Hmmm. Sounds to me like they're planning to just try and ignore a massive chunk of the electorate on the issue of immigration, then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Goat Sverige
That'll end well. :-(
That’s the thing. The Social Democrats, Moderates and Swedish Democrats account for 65% of the vote and are for restrictive immigration. You can even add the Chritisan Democrats to that and you’ve got over 70% of the vote. The trouble is the way they’ve aligned themselves they’ll always need to be propped up by parties who are for a more open stance on immigration and they end up having to bend to their will on some occasions leading to **** like that bill being passed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burney
That is the basic function of a political party. Unfortunately, a great mass of the electorate hold ill-informed views that would destroy a country. I am afraid they have to be ignored sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burney
Probably not on this occasion, admittedly. Britain was fine while we ignored the views or you and your ilk. It has fallen to pieces since we gave you a voice.
Democracy is a pain in the arse.
Britain is a classic example of the fact that the political class cannot simply ignore issues because they don't like them and hope to get away with it. Sooner or later, they'll come back to bite you on the arse. A classic example would Blair's craven and cynical failure to offer the promised referendum on Lisbon. That led directly to Brexit. That referendum could have been the pressure valve needed to keep us in the EU (not least by arresting some of the most unpopular aspects of the modern EU). Instead, he bottled it and resentment grew. The result was Brexit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
The attempt by political elites to ignore or suppress public sentiment on key issues only ever results in a more extreme version of the thing they feared in the first place. This is a lesson history teaches us over and over again. And yet short-sighted politicians and their lackeys (ie you) ignore it over and over again.
Vladimir Putin?Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Goat Sverige
History doesnt really teach us that at all. The political class 'manage' democracies in their own interests and they always have done. Brexit did not happen because the political class caved into some irresistible groundswell of public sentiment. A PRime Minister took a measured punt on a cynical electoral ploy which hugely backfired on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burney
This isnt the political class caving in to mass sentiment. It is them misreading it and believing they can use it to their own short term gain. In other words, it was a mistake.
No. Because of strong public sentiment, a political party grew from virtually nothing to a point whereby it could 'win' the European election; put a Tory PM into a situation where he had to choose between offering a referendum or losing office; and ultimately win that referendum. That is democracy working exactly the way it should - and is even more remarkable for having come about in an electoral system so heavily loaded against single-issue politics as ours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
It's only a 'mistake' for those technocratic types who wrongly and arrogantly imagine that democratic politics can for any length of time be conducted independently of the wishes of the demos.
gonna stand for that or you gonna stick one on his beak like a real man?Quote:
Originally Posted by Burney
I'll go further. He's a lickspittle. A toady. A fart-catcher for the political elite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert Augustus Chapman
Farkin 'ell Pete mate. Now he's called you an arrogant techo wánker or summat. You gonna bottle it again?Quote:
Originally Posted by Burney
Are you saying that had he lived in Stalin's USSR he would have been the worst kind of duplicitous apparatchik, feverishly noshing Uncle Joe's bellend at the mere flick of the murderous old Georgian's fingers? A scurrilous libel b.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burney
Democratic politics is always conducted independently of the wishes of the electorate- as I said, that is pretty much the purpose of a political party. Elections are fought between two different versions of the same view and all views that sit outside of that are ignored.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burney
Which is why it is quite amusing to see someone like you get so high and mighty about it the minute it happens to exclude you. :)
Look at you and Sir C ****ting your pants about Corbyn. The sheer terror that seizes you the minute the prospect of a genuine left wing government becomes even remotely realistic is tremendous fun.
Whichever way you cut it, Brexit happened by accident. Cameron's gamble only happened because of a delicate electoral balance which was NOT just about UKIP. Not even mainly about it. It is a strange argument to suggest that an accident after a 40 year wait is democracy in action.
Once this is done and dusted the political class will be back in total control and wil be ignoring all of us for decades to come. And you won't complain about it.
I thought I was a dangerous communist, a threat to the nation and your very way of life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burney
You backwoods, ****kicking, right wing reactionaries just can't seem to make up your mind :)
No. You are demonstrably wrong. Democratic politics can happen contrary to the wishes of the demos, but that can only create an unstable status quo. This country's Parliamentary history is littered with examples where ground has been given to public sentiment in order to avoid a more cataclysmic backlash. The mistake in recent years has been to assume that such concessions are no longer necessary because consensus - or at least equilibrium - has been achieved. This thinking led to the 'there is no alternative' mindset of which EU membership has been such a key aspect. This complacency is why Brexit has come as such a nasty shock. It has shown that everything is far from settled and that there are monumental political battles still to be fought. The status quo ante is not coming back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
Wow. Do you really believe that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Burney
You think this means political realignment across the board; a new and profound democracy for Britain?
****ing hell..... :)
Certainly something's got to give.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
I think we have two main parties currently in conditions of profound civil war and in which massive ideological differences - far beyond those covered by the notion of a broad church - are apparent. Our party system has been shown by Brexit to be woefully unfit for purpose and many MPs have been shown to be hopelessly at odds with their constituents.
I think anyone who thinks this is all going to go away on March 29th is kidding themselves.
Obviously it wont disappear on 29 March. Over time, as the ramifications settle and the reality is cast in stone the political elite will slowly close ranks and return to normality. We have seen 'tidal changes' over the decades but it is around a century since the political landscape changed for good, when the Liberal Party disintegrated following the Great War. Since then no manner of chaos or crisis has left a permanent mark on the overall climate- two parties fighting over a narrow piece of political land and filled with the chosen and trained elite, with a few strays let in to provide the illusion of openness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burney
Even the perpetual crises of the 70s served only to shift the Conservative Party to the right for a decade and the Labour Party to the left for even less. By the start of the 90s a new consensus emerged and both shifted naturally back to either side of the centre.
Yes, you little Hitler, we know what you'd like. You know, the interesting thing is that if there's anyone who actually has a solid connection to the Nazis, it's me. Oh yes, I'm related to Hermann Goering. On my Mom's side. Always liked this pic. As he gets older he looks like the fat queen he probably was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burney
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-he...-68832487.html