There are people to whom I am connected on Facebook (yes, I know...)

who are, to put it delicately, of a different age and, well, class, I suppose. They post pictures of St George, and quotes from Churchill, and holler and demand Brexit NOW! for ****'s sake, before all the immigrants kill us in our beds.

I understand their concerns and excuse their inability to express these worries in anything other than a bovine grunt, for they are common people, but what confuses me most is that, despite their enormous love for this country, the ****s have ****ed off and live in Spain.

Truly. Hoi polloi is a frighteningly illogical beast.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

who are, to put it delicately, of a different age and, well, class, I suppose. They post pictures of St George, and quotes from Churchill, and holler and demand Brexit NOW! for ****'s sake, before all the immigrants kill us in our beds.

I understand their concerns and excuse their inability to express these worries in anything other than a bovine grunt, for they are common people, but what confuses me most is that, despite their enormous love for this country, the ****s have ****ed off and live in Spain.

Truly. Hoi polloi is a frighteningly illogical beast.

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Here, mon frere, we can find some common ground

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Originally Posted by Sir C

who are, to put it delicately, of a different age and, well, class, I suppose. They post pictures of St George, and quotes from Churchill, and holler and demand Brexit NOW! for ****'s sake, before all the immigrants kill us in our beds.

I understand their concerns and excuse their inability to express these worries in anything other than a bovine grunt, for they are common people, but what confuses me most is that, despite their enormous love for this country, the ****s have ****ed off and live in Spain.

Truly. Hoi polloi is a frighteningly illogical beast.

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I have a whole bunch who bang on about Junior Doctors, new housing legislation, and MP's expenses (never any labour MP however)

They are all relatives.

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Originally Posted by The Jorge

Here, mon frere, we can find some common ground

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Je crois qu'on ne peut pas; je ne ris pas de leur patriotisme, je les deteste pour leur stupidite.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

Je crois qu'on ne peut pas; je ne ris pas de leur patriotisme, je les deteste pour leur stupidite.

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Erm, game of two halves?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/...8904029625.jpg

Seriously though, there's no greater stupidity than patriotism, I think George Carlin said it best.

“Pride should be reserved for something you achieve or obtain on your own, not something that happens by accident of birth. Being Irish isn't a skill... it's a ****ing genetic accident. You wouldn't say I'm proud to be 5'11"; I'm proud to have a pre-disposition for colon cancer.”

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Originally Posted by The Jorge

Erm, game of two halves?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/...8904029625.jpg

Seriously though, there's no greater stupidity than patriotism, I think George Carlin said it best.

“Pride should be reserved for something you achieve or obtain on your own, not something that happens by accident of birth. Being Irish isn't a skill... it's a ****ing genetic accident. You wouldn't say I'm proud to be 5'11"; I'm proud to have a pre-disposition for colon cancer.”

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You're not helping your argument by quoting some dead bloke who was neither funny nor wise.

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Originally Posted by Pat Vegas

I have a whole bunch who bang on about Junior Doctors, new housing legislation, and MP's expenses (never any labour MP however)

They are all relatives.

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Oh I often see Ian Harvey virtue signalling like a man on a desert island who's spotted a ****ing boat on the horizon.

I can't be arsed to get involved.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

You're not helping your argument by quoting some dead bloke who was neither funny nor wise.

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The man was a flat out genius, C

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Originally Posted by Sir C

Je crois qu'on ne peut pas; je ne ris pas de leur patriotisme, je les deteste pour leur stupidite.

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Mais on pourrait dire qu'il est courageux d'argumenter contre leurs propres intérêts comme ca....

...Non. C'est stupide. :-D

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Originally Posted by Burney

Mais on pourrait dire qu'il est courageux d'argumenter contre leurs propres intérêts comme ca....

...Non. C'est stupide. :-D

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Oui, ils vont vendre leurs maisons pour 15,000 euros, pour retourner en Angleterre et... quoi? Prendre une maison de council, peat-etre? :hehe:

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Originally Posted by The Jorge

Erm, game of two halves?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/...8904029625.jpg

Seriously though, there's no greater stupidity than patriotism, I think George Carlin said it best.

“Pride should be reserved for something you achieve or obtain on your own, not something that happens by accident of birth. Being Irish isn't a skill... it's a ****ing genetic accident. You wouldn't say I'm proud to be 5'11"; I'm proud to have a pre-disposition for colon cancer.”

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I think that's a really ****, reductive quote that shows absolutely no understanding of what the essence of patriotism actually is. Of course, patriotism can manifest in horrible, unpleasant ways. But you and the lad Carlin seem to be implying that it can only ever be a negative thing.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

Oui, ils vont vendre leurs maisons pour 15,000 euros, pour retourner en Angleterre et... quoi? Prendre une maison de council, peat-etre? :hehe:

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J'aime 'maison de council' :hehe:

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Originally Posted by Monty92

I think that's a really ****, reductive quote that shows absolutely no understanding of what the essence of patriotism actually is. Of course, patriotism can manifest in horrible, unpleasant ways. But you and the lad Carlin seem to be implying that it can only ever be a negative thing.

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To be fair, he was just a comedian. One shouldn't really seek profundity from someone whose job it is simply to make people laugh.

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Originally Posted by Burney

J'aime 'maison de council' :hehe:

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J'etais sur que tu connaîtrais comment ca veut dire. :hehe:

Alors, mais nous sommes drole!

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Originally Posted by Burney

To be fair, he was just a comedian. One shouldn't really seek profundity from someone whose job it is simply to make people laugh.

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Saying George Carlin is *just* a comedian is like saying Dennis was *just* a footballer

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Originally Posted by The Jorge

Saying George Carlin is *just* a comedian is like saying Dennis was *just* a footballer

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Perhaps they are comparable in their fields. They're equally qualified to comment on matters as profound as patriotism, of course.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

J'etais sur que tu connaîtrais comment ca veut dire. :hehe:

Alors, mais nous sommes drole!

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Oui, mais je crains que nous sommes proches des limites de mon français. Nous devons donc cesser.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

I think that's a really ****, reductive quote that shows absolutely no understanding of what the essence of patriotism actually is. Of course, patriotism can manifest in horrible, unpleasant ways. But you and the lad Carlin seem to be implying that it can only ever be a negative thing.

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OK, please tell me what a positive manifestation of patriotism is then. It's just arbitrary stuff, isnt it?

I mean, I'm happy that William Wilberforce abolished the slave trade, that Nye Bevan created the NHS and that Alan Turing created the difference engine but I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable taking pride in it, it's not my achievement even if we share the same passport.

It's great Yuri Gagarin was the first man in space but that he was a fellow caucasian male has no bearings on my feelings and neither do I resent Laika or canines in general for getting there first.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

Perhaps they are comparable in their fields. They're equally qualified to comment on matters as profound as patriotism, of course.

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Why is patriotism so deep though? As I say, it just seems arbitary to me.

Answer that yourself; have you not previously stated your "pride" in your Irish roots?

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Originally Posted by Burney

Oui, mais je crains que nous sommes proches des limites de mon français. Nous devons donc cesser.

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Well, I think you've both done very well.

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

Answer that yourself; have you not previously stated your "pride" in your Irish roots?

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I think that's perhaps one area where he does agree with George Carlin

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

Answer that yourself; have you not previously stated your "pride" in your Irish roots?

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That's different, r. Patriotism's only bad if you're British or American.

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

Well, I think you've both done very well.

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Aw, shucks. Sorry Sir C let the side down with 'maison de council', though.

Me, not you :homer:

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Originally Posted by The Jorge

I think that's perhaps one area where he does agree with George Carlin

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Originally Posted by The Jorge

Why is patriotism so deep though? As I say, it just seems arbitary to me.

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It is spiritually-rooted and entirely visceral, an emotion rather than a choice, an unquantifiable connection to place, to earth, to people and their deeds. It is like love, or religion or any other inexplicable need which springs from the soul and defines us as human.

That's how deep it is.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

It is spiritually-rooted and entirely visceral, an emotion rather than a choice, an unquantifiable connection to place, to earth, to people and their deeds. It is like love, or religion or any other inexplicable need which springs from the soul and defines us as human.

That's how deep it is.

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I say, that's rather good.

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Originally Posted by The Jorge

Why is patriotism so deep though? As I say, it just seems arbitary to me.

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Are you not proud to be an Arsenal supporter? Same difference, imo.

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Originally Posted by Burney

I say, that's rather good.

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ty b.

I'm spent now.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

It is spiritually-rooted and entirely visceral, an emotion rather than a choice, an unquantifiable connection to place, to earth, to people and their deeds. It is like love, or religion or any other inexplicable need which springs from the soul and defines us as human.

That's how deep it is.

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But do you only get that in *your* place then? I get that in Yorkshire, in Andalucia and in Florence. I get it when I think of the North Bank but I dont get it anywhere else in London, I dont get it when I see a union jack or hear the anthem, quite the opposite in those cases.

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

Are you not proud to be an Arsenal supporter? Same difference, imo.

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Answered above via kismet

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Originally Posted by The Jorge

But do you only get that in *your* place then? I get that in Yorkshire, in Andalucia and in Florence. I get it when I think of the North Bank but I dont get it anywhere else in London, I dont get it when I see a union jack or hear the anthem, quite the opposite in those cases.

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There are all sorts of things that you don't 'get', because you're a professional contrarian, a full-time hipster and a soulless communist :shrug:

Jorge, Why did you opt for an Irish passport if being patriotic doesn't mean anything to you? ;)

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Originally Posted by The Jorge

But do you only get that in *your* place then? I get that in Yorkshire, in Andalucia and in Florence. I get it when I think of the North Bank but I dont get it anywhere else in London, I dont get it when I see a union jack or hear the anthem, quite the opposite in those cases.

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That merely speaks to me of a certain narrowness of mind, though - certainly not of its opposite. You are talking about small places rather than about the larger ideas of which they are a part.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Aw, shucks. Sorry Sir C let the side down with 'maison de council', though.

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It is a common construction in, erm, the Languedoc. Yes, the Languedoc.

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Originally Posted by The Jorge

Answered above via kismet

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Yes, that's right; your place is "you". And if "you" can choose then so can everybody else surely.

What is there not to get?

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Originally Posted by Norn Iron

Jorge, Why did you opt for an Irish passport if being patriotic doesn't mean anything to you? ;)

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Because it's a way of showing how unpatriotic he is - which is, of course, a tacit acknowledgement of just how large and significant the idea of England and Britain loom in his mind. But never mind, eh? Therein lies the inherent contradiction of the dyed-in-the-wool self-loathing British lefty.

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Originally Posted by Burney

That merely speaks to me of a certain narrowness of mind, though - certainly not of its opposite. You are talking about small places rather than about the larger ideas of which they are a part.

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And what does "Andalucia" mean? Magaluf?

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Originally Posted by Sir C

You're not helping your argument by quoting some dead bloke who was neither funny nor wise.

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George Carlin was indeed not particularly interesting. His whole black t-shirt thing was depressing as well.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

It is spiritually-rooted and entirely visceral, an emotion rather than a choice, an unquantifiable connection to place, to earth, to people and their deeds. It is like love, or religion or any other inexplicable need which springs from the soul and defines us as human.

That's how deep it is.

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Or, as it is written:

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord
He is tramping out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored.

:tearing up:

Have some of that, you filthy blue-painted scallywags