Overall, that really isn't too bad of a result

The only nuclear possibility was that A level failing, terrorist supporting, anti-Semitic cretin Corbyn being elected PM and, despite an appalling campaign from the Tories and a poor leader, he still didn't come close.

Additionally, it is distinctly possible, although not certain, that May will have to negotiate a softer Brexit which will be good for the country.

This shift in British politics to the left strikes me as nonsense. There are many reasons for last night's result but I can't see a desire for a return to tax/spend and the nationalization of the industry and services to be amongst them. This result was about Remain getting their own back and the Tories running an incompetent campaign, I think.

And we get Corbyn as the Labour leader for the forseeable future. Who knows, they may be stupid enough to go even farther left. :cloud9:

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

The only nuclear possibility was that A level failing, terrorist supporting, anti-Semitic cretin Corbyn being elected PM and, despite an appalling campaign from the Tories and a poor leader, he still didn't come close.

Additionally, it is distinctly possible, although not certain, that May will have to negotiate a softer Brexit which will be good for the country.

This shift in British politics to the left strikes me as nonsense. There are many reasons for last night's result but I can't see a desire for a return to tax/spend and the nationalization of the industry and services to be amongst them. This result was about Remain getting their own back and the Tories running an incompetent campaign, I think.

And we get Corbyn as the Labour leader for the forseeable future. Who knows, they may be stupid enough to go even farther left. :cloud9:

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The EU will not allow a soft Brexit as that would encourage other countries to go the same route.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

The EU will not allow a soft Brexit as that would encourage other countries to go the same route.

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Eh? A soft Brexit means that the Brexit terms are not markedly different from what we have now. That would be the EU's choice, and much of Great Britain's as well.

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

The only nuclear possibility was that A level failing, terrorist supporting, anti-Semitic cretin Corbyn being elected PM and, despite an appalling campaign from the Tories and a poor leader, he still didn't come close.

Additionally, it is distinctly possible, although not certain, that May will have to negotiate a softer Brexit which will be good for the country.

This shift in British politics to the left strikes me as nonsense. There are many reasons for last night's result but I can't see a desire for a return to tax/spend and the nationalization of the industry and services to be amongst them. This result was about Remain getting their own back and the Tories running an incompetent campaign, I think.

And we get Corbyn as the Labour leader for the forseeable future. Who knows, they may be stupid enough to go even farther left. :cloud9:

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As someone pointed out, May has found out the same thing Clinton did: the other guy being unelectable isn't enough for you to win.

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

Eh? A soft Brexit means that the Brexit terms are not markedly different from what we have now. That would be the EU's choice, and much of Great Britain's as well.

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But it would encourage other countries to get out, as everyone wants the benefits of the EU without being members.

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

Eh? A soft Brexit means that the Brexit terms are not markedly different from what we have now. That would be the EU's choice, and much of Great Britain's as well.

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The right of the Tory party is now in a position to bring down any government that goes soft, though.

There will have to be another election, I'm afraid.

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Originally Posted by Burney

The right of the Tory party is now in a position to bring down any government that goes soft, though.

There will have to be another election, I'm afraid.

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Who would you have as next leader? Boris? Davis?

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

The only nuclear possibility was that A level failing, terrorist supporting, anti-Semitic cretin Corbyn being elected PM and, despite an appalling campaign from the Tories and a poor leader, he still didn't come close.

Additionally, it is distinctly possible, although not certain, that May will have to negotiate a softer Brexit which will be good for the country.

This shift in British politics to the left strikes me as nonsense. There are many reasons for last night's result but I can't see a desire for a return to tax/spend and the nationalization of the industry and services to be amongst them. This result was about Remain getting their own back and the Tories running an incompetent campaign, I think.

And we get Corbyn as the Labour leader for the forseeable future. Who knows, they may be stupid enough to go even farther left. :cloud9:

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He could still get in.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

But it would encourage other countries to get out, as everyone wants the benefits of the EU without being members.

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I think you're confused about what a soft Brexit is, Monty old bean.

It means that very little changes, so little that you could argue (and the EU would) that the whole thing was pointless. If we end up more or less in the same position as we are now, why would anyone go through the bother of leaving given the hassle and cost associated with it?

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Originally Posted by Burney

The right of the Tory party is now in a position to bring down any government that goes soft, though.

There will have to be another election, I'm afraid.

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As is the left of the Tory party, hence the need for compromise.

Although I think you're right. I'm guessing May goes at some point, someone steps in and agrees a Brexit deal at some level, and then we do this all over again.

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

I think you're confused about what a soft Brexit is, Monty old bean.

It means that very little changes, so little that you could argue (and the EU would) that the whole thing was pointless. If we end up more or less in the same position as we are now, why would anyone go through the bother of leaving given the hassle and cost associated with it?

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If we are allowed to leave the EU, but stay in the single market, that would make leaving the EU attractive to other countries :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Billy Goat Sverige

Who would you have as next leader? Boris? Davis?

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Has to be a Brexiteer, I think. Davis is screwed because he pushed for the election. So maybe Biris - although after last night I'm officially retiring from the predictions game. :-)

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Originally Posted by Burney

Has to be a Brexiteer, I think. Davis is screwed because he pushed for the election. So maybe Biris - although after last night I'm officially retiring from the predictions game. :-)

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Huzzah....

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

I think you're confused about what a soft Brexit is, Monty old bean.

It means that very little changes, so little that you could argue (and the EU would) that the whole thing was pointless. If we end up more or less in the same position as we are now, why would anyone go through the bother of leaving given the hassle and cost associated with it?

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So you are saying the EU would allow us to have more or less the same rights as being in the EU without actually being in the EU? Something which Merkel and high-ranking EU officials have categorically ruled out?

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Originally Posted by Luis Anaconda

So you are saying the EU would allow us to have more or less the same rights as being in the EU without actually being in the EU? Something which Merkel and high-ranking EU officials have categorically ruled out?

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No, I'm saying that soft Brexit might well mean we maintain many of the rights we have while being in the EU (but not all of them) but also have many of the responsibilities that we thought we would no longer have by leaving. As an example, we might reach an agreement whereby we keep the financial passport and have a more restricted access to the common market but in exchange we pay additional money to the EU and allow freer movement to the UK for EU countries than for non-EU countries.

I would imagine there are also sorts of permutations and combinations that would keep everyone happy.

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

No, I'm saying that soft Brexit might well mean we maintain many of the rights we have while being in the EU (but not all of them) but also have many of the responsibilities that we thought we would no longer have by leaving. As an example, we might reach an agreement whereby we keep the financial passport and have a more restricted access to the common market but in exchange we pay additional money to the EU and allow freer movement to the UK for EU countries than for non-EU countries.

I would imagine there are also sorts of permutations and combinations that would keep everyone happy.

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The EU will only be happy if its flag continues to fly over UK and its misrule continues and deepens

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

No, I'm saying that soft Brexit might well mean we maintain many of the rights we have while being in the EU (but not all of them) but also have many of the responsibilities that we thought we would no longer have by leaving. As an example, we might reach an agreement whereby we keep the financial passport and have a more restricted access to the common market but in exchange we pay additional money to the EU and allow freer movement to the UK for EU countries than for non-EU countries.

I would imagine there are also sorts of permutations and combinations that would keep everyone happy.

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Fair enough, twas the money thing that I was really looking at. Thank you for clarifying. I am not so sure this result means a "softer" brexit is more likely - though I hope so. Depends on who is negotiating it - whoever it is will be in thrall to an anti-Eu DUP and a very strong right wing of the party (bearing in mind that the conservative vote held up so well is largely due to returning Ukippers). Like most things nowadays - very hard to predict

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Originally Posted by Luis Anaconda

Fair enough, twas the money thing that I was really looking at. Thank you for clarifying. I am not so sure this result means a "softer" brexit is more likely - though I hope so. Depends on who is negotiating it - whoever it is will be in thrall to an anti-Eu DUP and a very strong right wing of the party (bearing in mind that the conservative vote held up so well is largely due to returning Ukippers). Like most things nowadays - very hard to predict

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All last night's result means is a much, much messier Brexit. It's going to be pretty much impossible to reach a deal of any sort with this sort of domestic instability.

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Originally Posted by Luis Anaconda

Fair enough, twas the money thing that I was really looking at. Thank you for clarifying. I am not so sure this result means a "softer" brexit is more likely - though I hope so. Depends on who is negotiating it - whoever it is will be in thrall to an anti-Eu DUP and a very strong right wing of the party (bearing in mind that the conservative vote held up so well is largely due to returning Ukippers). Like most things nowadays - very hard to predict

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Yes, it is very hard to predict however I'm making the assumption that without a majority and given the nature of the way this election went, whoever negotiates Brexit will be much less likely to accept the 'no deal is better than a bad deal' approach and will be more open to negotiation and compromise.

Having said that, the Times mentioned this morning that May was rumoured to have told Brussels that she was willing to compromise once she had a strong majority. :-\

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

Yes, it is very hard to predict however I'm making the assumption that without a majority and given the nature of the way this election went, whoever negotiates Brexit will be much less likely to accept the 'no deal is better than a bad deal' approach and will be more open to negotiation and compromise.

Having said that, the Times mentioned this morning that May was rumoured to have told Brussels that she was willing to compromise once she had a strong majority. :-\

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That was the whole point of her wanting a strong majority - so that she was no longer in thrall to the right of her party. This result means they still have her by the throat.

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Originally Posted by Burney

That was the whole point of her wanting a strong majority - so that she was no longer in thrall to the right of her party. This result means they still have her by the throat.

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Possibly, but they also portrayed it as allowing her to walk away if she needed to and go hard Brexit.

We'll never know what really was going to happen.

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

Possibly, but they also portrayed it as allowing her to walk away if she needed to and go hard Brexit.

We'll never know what really was going to happen.

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There's no 'possibly' about it. Anyone thinking this result means a softer Brexit is kidding themselves.

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Originally Posted by Burney

All last night's result means is a much, much messier Brexit. It's going to be pretty much impossible to reach a deal of any sort with this sort of domestic instability.

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Yep - can't argue with that

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

No, I'm saying that soft Brexit might well mean we maintain many of the rights we have while being in the EU (but not all of them) but also have many of the responsibilities that we thought we would no longer have by leaving. As an example, we might reach an agreement whereby we keep the financial passport and have a more restricted access to the common market but in exchange we pay additional money to the EU and allow freer movement to the UK for EU countries than for non-EU countries.

I would imagine there are also sorts of permutations and combinations that would keep everyone happy.

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Doesn't sound like much of a deal to me, tbh. So you wideboy finance Johnnies get to keep your noses in the trough while the rest of us pay additional money to have a more restricted access to the market and still closed borders wrt movement from the rest of the world?

Bof.

Of course, I may have misunderstood. ;-)

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Originally Posted by Ash

Doesn't sound like much of a deal to me, tbh. So you wideboy finance Johnnies get to keep your noses in the trough while the rest of us pay additional money to have a more restricted access to the market and still closed borders wrt movement from the rest of the world?

Bof.

Of course, I may have misunderstood. ;-)

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Er, that was just an example, if it makes you feel better I'm happy to propose that we give up the financial passport in return for unrestricted access to the common market? :-)

BTW, banks being free to operate unrestricted by national borders is actually a pretty good thing. In fact, I think you'll find that banks are a pretty good thing (note the massive understatement) unless you have the mentality of Jorge.

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

In fact, I think you'll find that banks are a pretty good thing (note the massive understatement) unless you have the mentality of Jorge.

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On the whole, of course. Though it rather depends what they do.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

If we are allowed to leave the EU, but stay in the single market, that would make leaving the EU attractive to other countries :shrug:

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Dear God, Monty. Of course you can. Look at Norway. Switzerland does for most of its industries.

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

No, I'm saying that soft Brexit might well mean we maintain many of the rights we have while being in the EU (but not all of them) but also have many of the responsibilities that we thought we would no longer have by leaving. As an example, we might reach an agreement whereby we keep the financial passport and have a more restricted access to the common market but in exchange we pay additional money to the EU and allow freer movement to the UK for EU countries than for non-EU countries.

I would imagine there are also sorts of permutations and combinations that would keep everyone happy.

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Times saying today that we'll have to pay £5bn pa anyway. Half our net contribution. Brexit shows most people shouldn't be allowed to vote on things of importance. They should stick to the X-factor.

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

Dear God, Monty. Of course you can. Look at Norway. Switzerland does for most of its industries.

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Important distinction: Neither Norway nor Switzerland left the EU. They were just never a part of it. Also, the price Norway pays for access to the single market is free movement and that is simply a red line no UK government will be allowed to cross.

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

Times saying today that we'll have to pay £5bn pa anyway. Half our net contribution. Brexit shows most people shouldn't be allowed to vote on things of importance. They should stick to the X-factor.

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Please **** off.

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Originally Posted by Ash

Please **** off.

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:hehe: Some people shouldn't even be allow the right to post on a football forum.