Granit Jacka

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Originally Posted by SWv2

I have not really over exposed myself to it. The outcome with Mourinho being pragmatic and seeming to prioritise not losing over actually winning does not surprise me, he has form.

Sad scenes in a way as even less Pogba and whoever else they should have been good enough to beat an average Liverpool team.

I am sure he sees it as a point well earned, which perhaps any such point away from home is?

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:nono: Nothing sad about Man Utd dropping points.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

Regarding your final comment, I'm not sure it's anything to do with trust, as such. I've been assuming it's because he's compensating for Giroud's form and loyalty by throwing him 20 minutes in every game.

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Giroud gets 90 minutes on thursday, and another 90 the following week. :shrug: Doesn't Lacazette deserve a chance against tired defenders when we're one-nil up?

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Originally Posted by Ash

Giroud gets 90 minutes on thursday, and another 90 the following week. :shrug: Doesn't Lacazette deserve a chance against tired defenders when we're one-nil up?

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Olly has been playing in the Champions League for 6 years and is France's 7th highest goalscorer ever. You think he'll be placated by the odd game against FC Chicken Kiev?

What I didn't reveal in my previous post is that if my assumption is right, I would be horrified.

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Originally Posted by Ash

I'd rather the players and the club didn't accept it, as they're the only ones who can do anything about it. For us as fans, accepting inevitable failure as inevitable failure is most sensible imo, and the only way to avoid one's weekend being spoiled.

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A cynical view would be that there has to be consequences for repeated failures. There dont appear to be any, at an level. A cosy club- a safe space, even.

He said the players were shocked in the dressing room. I would expect to see fist fights.

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Originally Posted by Peter

A cynical view would be that there has to be consequences for repeated failures. There dont appear to be any, at an level. A cosy club- a safe space, even.

He said the players were shocked in the dressing room. I would expect to see fist fights.

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Why would there be fist fights? We are in the mix, knocking around the top of the table with all the teams you'd expect. Granted, we've fallen behind the leaders, but we are where we'd hope we'd be, albeit a few points worse off. Disappointing and concerning, of course, but no reason for fist fights.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

Olly has been playing in the Champions League for 6 years and is France's 7th highest goalscorer ever. You think he'll be placated by the odd game against FC Chicken Kiev?

What I didn't reveal in my previous post is that if my assumption is right, I would be horrified.

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Yes, you may well be right that Arsene is placating Giroud. At the expense of the bloke who was bought to be better than him, and now gets to sixty minutes in every game knowing that he has just ten minutes to score before getting the hook. What does that do for him?

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Originally Posted by Ash

So which is it? You first said they are not robots, and that they have feelings, which is why they're allowed a day off to go and cry about their international failure. Then you are basically saying that they are robots, and all you have to do is switch them on and feed them money and they go and play, and motivation doesn't come into it.

Second point is bang on though. We're not good enough because we are weak. Not every week, but too many weaks on too many weeks.

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Basically, you cannot treat them like robots even though the demands of professionalism insist that you do and despite the fact that you know you shouldn't, in any case. So long as they get rewarded well enough, this is not a problem, except, as you say, to those who don't. The supporters who want to win the league, for instance.

I wasn't trying to say we're weak, more that nowadays we want to have different strengths. The Keown/Deeney exchange post-match touched on this; TD boasting that he came on to try to rough us up and Keown replying sadly that, once upon a time, he would have out there waiting for him. And adding that he didn't think this Arsenal team and these Arsenal players had that attitude anymore.

Well, duh .. :homer:

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Originally Posted by Ash

Yes, you may well be right that Arsene is placating Giroud. At the expense of the bloke who was bought to be better than him, and now gets to sixty minutes in every game knowing that he has just ten minutes to score before getting the hook. What does that do for him?

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It ought to tell him to get a move on. It's the same in FIFA; as a new, young player, you only usually get an hour to make your mark, earn your points, so you'd better get on with it.

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

Basically, you cannot treat them like robots even though the demands of professionalism insist that you do and despite the fact that you know you shouldn't, in any case. So long as they get rewarded well enough, this is not a problem, except, as you say, to those who don't. The supporters who want to win the league, for instance.

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Sorry, no matter how many times I read that I'm still baffled. :-(

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Originally Posted by Ash

Yes, you may well be right that Arsene is placating Giroud. At the expense of the bloke who was bought to be better than him, and now gets to sixty minutes in every game knowing that he has just ten minutes to score before getting the hook. What does that do for him?

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Fúck Giroud, quite frankly.

He is being placated to the tune of about 80k per week and chose to stay with us in the summer, knowing that Lacazette had arrived, and also knowing that we were willing to allow him to leave.

I personally find the substitution policy with AL to be beyond bizarre. Almost like a manager who no longer really knows what is best to do but is bumbling along.