Is the Tory party actually on a mission to alienate every single voter in the country

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Originally Posted by Burney

But this is the point: how you define yourself is irrelevant. What matters is how objective , empirical fact defines you. The law can't be run on the basis of allowing everyone to be taken at their own valuation.

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Right, but that is clearly where we are heading. I am just saying, nobody is going to tell me I am not a bloke.

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Originally Posted by Peter

Of course they still apply. What you have in your pants and what you want to have there remains different and distinct from where you want to stick it.

For them, those traditional notions may not apply but for the rest of us they do. I am a bloke who fancies women and I identify as such. Whats wrong with that?

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What's wrong with that is that you use the nonsense of saying that that is how you 'identify' as opposed to saying that that is just plain and simple what you bloody well are. To say you 'identify' is to concede that those definitions are of your choosing or might at some point change. Once you concede that absolutes are negotiable, you're in trouble.

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Originally Posted by Peter

Of course they still apply. What you have in your pants and what you want to have there remains different and distinct from where you want to stick it.

For them, those traditional notions may not apply but for the rest of us they do. I am a bloke who fancies women and I identify as such. Whats wrong with that?

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Because notions of sexuality are fundamentally rooted in traditional conceptions of sex and gender. identifying as a man no longer means you are a man, because being a man means nothing in a scientific sense. And neither, therefore, does sexuality.

You are simply a person who today identifies as a man who fancies woman. Heterosexuality has nothing to do with it.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

Segregation? Lovely Peter, just lovely.

No doubt you'dd have them at the back of the bus and in separate queues at the post office too.

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We already have segregation of the sexes. We are just adding a further category to recognise all these attention-seeking benders.

And we already have people wanting to segregate public transport. Not my idea....

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Originally Posted by Monty92

Because notions of sexuality are fundamentally rooted in traditional conceptions of sex and gender. identifying as a man no longer means you are a man, because being a man means nothing in a scientific sense. And neither, therefore, does sexuality.

You are simply a person who today identifies as a man who fancies woman. Heterosexuality has nothing to do with it.

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That's fine. I have never prided myself on being heterosexual. I don't care about that.

I identify as a man. I don't really give a **** what anyone else thinks about that. I am not willing to identify as being part of some muddled pool of normals and benders.

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Originally Posted by Peter

We already have segregation of the sexes. We are just adding a further category to recognise all these attention-seeking benders.

And we already have people wanting to segregate public transport. Not my idea....

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EXACTLY! You are finally woke!

Segregation of humans is not only socially and ethically regressive but factually absurd, given there is no such thing as biological sex.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

EXACTLY! You are finally woke!

Segregation of the sexes is not only socially and ethically regressive but factually absurd, given there is no such thing as biological sex.

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It is merely a matter of public convenience (if you'll pardon the pun). Some stand, some sit. Those inbetween can **** off to the third door.

What's wrong with that? The rest of it is just *******s isn't it.

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Originally Posted by Burney

What's wrong with that is that you use the nonsense of saying that that is how you 'identify' as opposed to saying that that is just plain and simple what you bloody well are. To say you 'identify' is to concede that those definitions are of your choosing or might at some point change. Once you concede that absolutes are negotiable, you're in trouble.

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Of course. But if you start going down that road they win. There is no end to this conversation other than to stick them in a third bog and let them say whatever the **** they want.

And they are not having the op on the NHS either. **** that.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

https://www.autostraddle.com/its-tim...sogyny-240284/

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Laughable as that article is, it's also scary. Essentially, it is someone holding demonstrable facts up to ridicule and contempt based on an absurd, faith-based dogma. In essence, it's no different to a fundamentalist tract denouncing evolution or an article in Dabiq that holds western science in contempt because it clashes with the Koran. These people scare me.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Laughable as that article is, it's also scary. Essentially, it is someone holding demonstrable facts up to ridicule and contempt based on an absurd, faith-based dogma. In essence, it's no different to a fundamentalist tract denouncing evolution or an article in Dabiq that holds western science in contempt because it clashes with the Koran. These people scare me.

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Both laughable and scary, you say?

"Mey Valdivia Rude is a bisexual Latina trans woman living in Los Angeles. She's a writer, comic consultant and a trans activist. She's a bruja, a femme, a pop princess and she loves comic books, witches, dinosaurs and crying."

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Originally Posted by Monty92

Both laughable and scary, you say?

"Mey Valdivia Rude is a bisexual Latina trans woman living in Los Angeles. She's a writer, comic consultant and a trans activist. She's a bruja, a femme, a pop princess and she loves comic books, witches, dinosaurs and crying."

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Blimey. Thank God these people have such high suicide rates.

Couldn't we just change all toilets, changing rooms etc into, those who have a pen1s, those who have a vagina and those who have both go to the raspberry one?

That wouldn't be discriminatory in any way, would it? And there would be no lack of clarity with regard to where you should go?

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

Couldn't we just change all toilets, changing rooms etc into, those who have a pen1s, those who have a vagina and those who have both go to the raspberry one?

That wouldn't be discriminatory in any way, would it? And there would be no lack of clarity with regard to where you should go?

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How is it not discriminatory to tell a man with a penís that he can't go in the toilet of his choice? What happens if he looks down at his penís (which we know only to be conceptual) and sees a vagina?

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Originally Posted by Monty92

How is it not discriminatory to tell a man with a penís that he can't go in the toilet of his choice? What happens if he looks down at his penís (which we know only to be conceptual) and sees a vagina?

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Because either way the person still gets to use the loo or change, so there is no discrimination. And for convenience we are merely routing people to one or the other based on a physical characteristic. Not what they see, but what they have.

I'm not seeing a flaw here, Monty old bean.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

How is it not discriminatory to tell a man with a penís that he can't go in the toilet of his choice? What happens if he looks down at his penís (which we know only to be conceptual) and sees a vagina?

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That is quite spooky, 'cos when your mum looks at her vagina she nearly always sees a *****

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

Because either way the person still gets to use the loo or change, so there is no discrimination. And for convenience we are merely routing people to one or the other based on a physical characteristic. Not what they see, but what they have.

I'm not seeing a flaw here, Monty old bean.

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You're absolute fúcking vermin mate, that's what you are.

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Originally Posted by Ash

I sometimes have hurty-foot syndrome too, Peter. I feel your pain. Well, my pain tbh, but I can empathise.

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Well no one has more hurty-foot syndrome than me, should get confirmation of gout this week, beautiful eh? :hehe:

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Originally Posted by barrybueno

Well no one has more hurty-foot syndrome than me, should get confirmation of gout this week, beautiful eh? :hehe:

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:-\ Good luck, Baz.

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

Couldn't we just change all toilets, changing rooms etc into, those who have a pen1s, those who have a vagina and those who have both go to the raspberry one?

That wouldn't be discriminatory in any way, would it? And there would be no lack of clarity with regard to where you should go?

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See what gender neutral toilets lead to . . . http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/man-who-...oday-1-4790075

Quite fitting where the defendant now lives...

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Originally Posted by IUFG

See what gender neutral toilets lead to . . . http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/man-who-...oday-1-4790075

Quite fitting where the defendant now lives...

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"Comments have been disabled on this article"

The Cameron/Osborne wing of the Tory Party thinks being socially liberal compensates for being economically uncompromising.

Many working class people are inherenrly socially conservative and have no natural political home. Few politicians have the guts to swim against the tide. David Davis might, I think.... Tim Farron was hounded out of his job for not trashing his beliefs on gay sex.