Open-topped bus parade on the 28th :cloud9:

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Originally Posted by Sir C

Might I make so bold as to clarify something?

The 'fourth place trophy' idea with which so many like to bash our greatest ever manager stems from a perfectly reasonable comment. He said that fourth place was 'like a trophy', which, indeed, it is, since every club achieving CL qualification celebrates it as a success.

'Like a trophy'. Not, 'is a trophy'. 'Like a trophy.'

It takes either an incredibly lazy, or incredibly vindictive mindset to continually beat Arsene around the head by warping a perfectly reasonable comment.

Carry on.

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*******s. No top club or manager with ambition celebrates fourth place like a trophy. They may even miss out on it once in a blue moon (Chelsea last year) but if they limp in fourth they never celebrate "like a trophy".

It says everything about the standards Wenger is allowed to get away with and his lack of ambition for our club.

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

BTW, now that I've stopped laughing, I'm loving the idea that supporters of one of the ten richest clubs in the world who don't consider avoiding relegation to be trophy have a sense of entitlement that is way out of control.

That is some seriously top class lunacy/drunkenness right there. :clap:

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I'm not sure you understood the point. Obviously not a trophy for us - for other clubs. I was merely expressing the idea that "like a trophy" can mean different things to different teams. Therefore is isn't wrong to say that a top four place is "like a trophy". Every team has different standards of course. If you were in the North Bank in 1996 when Dennis scored against Bolton to secure us fifth place (at Spurs's expense obviously). Probably a better remembered moment than a couple of our cup wins to be honest.

Interesting that you always have to bring everything down to money though. Just because you happen to support a club that has a lot, why do you feel that entitles you to anything? Not like you contribute anything to that wealth these days

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Originally Posted by Yesterday Once More

*******s. No top club or manager with ambition celebrates fourth place like a trophy. They may even miss out on it once in a blue moon (Chelsea last year) but if they limp in fourth they never celebrate "like a trophy".

It says everything about the standards Wenger is allowed to get away with and his lack of ambition for our club.

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There is no need for foul language. I recommend that you attempt to expand your vocabulary so that you can express yourself without resorting to vulgarity.

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Originally Posted by Yesterday Once More

*******s. No top club or manager with ambition celebrates fourth place like a trophy. They may even miss out on it once in a blue moon (Chelsea last year) but if they limp in fourth they never celebrate "like a trophy".

It says everything about the standards Wenger is allowed to get away with and his lack of ambition for our club.

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oh do piss off you tedious **** - of course they all celebrate. Not like winning the league but, you know they celebrate, finishing high enough to qualify for the biggest club competition in the world. It's what we do, it's what they do

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Originally Posted by Luis Anaconda

oh do piss off you tedious **** - of course they all celebrate. Not like winning the league but, you know they celebrate, finishing high enough to qualify for the biggest club competition in the world. It's what we do, it's what they do

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I'm a ssuming that was 'tedious twát', because of the pleasing alliteration?

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

BTW, now that I've stopped laughing, I'm loving the idea that supporters of one of the ten richest clubs in the world who don't consider avoiding relegation to be trophy have a sense of entitlement that is way out of control.

That is some seriously top class lunacy/drunkenness right there. :clap:

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The word you are missing there is 'like', WES. It is a simile. It means that there are shared characteristics, not that it is the same thing. A goal to aim at as a sports club that has great rewards attached. Anyway, didn't Pep recently say something about top four being like a trophy? What does he know about success?

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Originally Posted by Luis Anaconda

I'm not sure you understood the point. Obviously not a trophy for us - for other clubs. I was merely expressing the idea that "like a trophy" can mean different things to different teams. Therefore is isn't wrong to say that a top four place is "like a trophy". Every team has different standards of course. If you were in the North Bank in 1996 when Dennis scored against Bolton to secure us fifth place (at Spurs's expense obviously). Probably a better remembered moment than a couple of our cup wins to be honest.

Interesting that you always have to bring everything down to money though. Just because you happen to support a club that has a lot, why do you feel that entitles you to anything? Not like you contribute anything to that wealth these days

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Yes, you're right, I didn't understand your point. Mostly because you didn't do a very good job of making it. :-)

And I don't think it is a question of entitlement, certainly not in my case, anyway. It is simply basic logic. Money is not the only contributing factor to a team's success (I have made this point many times), but it is an important one. It is therefore logical to make the point that a very rich club, which we clearly are, should not consider avoiding relegation to be an achievement. In fact, in your clarification you make that point as well. Which brings us back to top four not being a trophy which - again - has nothing to do with money, I am simply distinguishing between winning a trophy and accomplishing something which is good for the club. I see a very clear line between those two things.

And now that we're back there, I have no idea how we got here and now intend to have a lay down and forget the whole thing.

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Originally Posted by Ash

The word you are missing there is 'like', WES. It is a simile. It means that there are shared characteristics, not that it is the same thing. A goal to aim at as a sports club that has great rewards attached. Anyway, didn't Pep recently say something about top four being like a trophy? What does he know about success?

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Yes, he also said that this season would've got him the sack at either of his previous clubs. But what do they know about trophies. Proper ones, I mean.

Of course it's better for us to win matches and finish as high as we can but the word "trophy" was a poor choice. In our game, as even M has just pointed out, nothing is like a trophy.

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

In our game, as even M has just pointed out, nothing is like a trophy.

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:nod: Quite right. Amazing how much grief a chap can get from other Arsenal supporters for saying such a thing.

The power of Wenger, I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Luis Anaconda

I'm not sure you understood the point. Obviously not a trophy for us - for other clubs. I was merely expressing the idea that "like a trophy" can mean different things to different teams. Therefore is isn't wrong to say that a top four place is "like a trophy". Every team has different standards of course. If you were in the North Bank in 1996 when Dennis scored against Bolton to secure us fifth place (at Spurs's expense obviously). Probably a better remembered moment than a couple of our cup wins to be honest.

Interesting that you always have to bring everything down to money though. Just because you happen to support a club that has a lot, why do you feel that entitles you to anything? Not like you contribute anything to that wealth these days

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I agree, what Wenger said wasn't wrong; He was simply wrong to be caught saying it :shrug:

Anyway it was Veng Himself that started banging on about money, not us. It's not entitlement, it's merely supporting the club's broad and general plans and schemes.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

No it's not. It's an absolutely valid point.

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Yes, of course it's a valid point. Wenger was simply wrong to make it, that's all.

It gave people the wrong idea and accomplished nothing except, as you say, giving people like me a stick with which to beat Him. Most importantly though, I'd be prepared to argue it poisoned the players too, both ones we have and ones we don't. Especially when taken in conjunction with the "financial doping" comments. After all, who doesn't want to be financially doped? I know I do :shrug:

The message was understood as, If you want to win the league or the European Cup and make loads more money, then do not join the Arsenal.