Some fat retards have formed a 'peace chain' outside Didsbury mosque

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

Blame the Germans then; they were itching for a fight. They were desperate to kick some arses.

Anyway, I was in Bosnia. It's only really religious in a bland, non-committal, "C of E" sense. Unless they happen to be talking to CNN at the time.

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Oh, I do blame the Germans for starting it. :nod: In a sense the civil wars were a continuation of WW2, where the pro-Nazi Krvats actually shocked the Germans with their brutality, and Bosian muslims fought in the SS. These inconvenient truths were why PR firms (specifically Ruder Finn) were hired to portray the Serbian sides as Nazis. The old getting your retaliation in first.

I've no doubt you are right about many of the locals, but the Muj were bussed in too, and some of the 911 crew fought there. As, I've been told, was the Westminster killer. Izetbegovic (ex SS recruiter) stated in his book that there could be "no peaceful co-existance" between them and the infidel. This latter influence was why my Macedonian pal joined the JNA.

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

Yes. Fishing mostly; my then chief was mad for it :-|

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What were you, a fúcking red indian or something?

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Originally Posted by Sir C

I'm not convinced, though, that the issue is one of pro-Islam so much as anti-British. They would be on the side of whoever our enemies were, on the grounds that they want to see us eradicated.

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Hang on, are we talking about Jihadis here, or Jorge?

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Originally Posted by Ash

Hang on, are we talking about Jihadis here, or Jorge?

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Jorge, as part of the ruling (and I mean 'ruling') authoritarian leftist culture.

Although I suppose I should be careful what I say, lest I be arrested for a hate crime.

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Originally Posted by SWv2

What were you, a fúcking red indian or something?

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More like a cowboy, to be honest.

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Originally Posted by Ash

Hang on, are we talking about Jihadis here, or Jorge?

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It's a trait of the modern left in general, I'm afraid. They actively hate Britishness and find any suggestion that there may be anything positive about this country's legacy disgusting. This is why they lap up the ahistorical rhetoric of Islamists.

Of course, but there's always a strong seasoning of "Well, they would say that, wouldn't they", about it because anti-religion-types, like the BBC, take them more seriously that way.

And that "mujahadeen" you're talking about, we used to call them the "Prada Front" because they were mostly spoiled, rich kids from Illinois or wherever out to have an adventure and a punch up and mostly worried about the telling off they were going to get when they returned home and Dad wanted to know about their Mastercard bill and also why their studies were in the toilet.

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Originally Posted by Ash

Oh, I do blame the Germans for starting it. :nod: In a sense the civil wars were a continuation of WW2, where the pro-Nazi Krvats actually shocked the Germans with their brutality, and Bosian muslims fought in the SS. These inconvenient truths were why PR firms (specifically Ruder Finn) were hired to portray the Serbian sides as Nazis. The old getting your retaliation in first.

I've no doubt you are right about many of the locals, but the Muj were bussed in too, and some of the 911 crew fought there. As, I've been told, was the Westminster killer. Izetbegovic (ex SS recruiter) stated in his book that there could be "no peaceful co-existance" between them and the infidel. This latter influence was why my Macedonian pal joined the JNA.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

Jorge, as part of the ruling (and I mean 'ruling') authoritarian leftist culture.

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But it was the Left that most loudly took up the cause of 'humanitarian intervention' in Jugoslavia and were at the forefront of demands for military action. That was the point at which I left the Left, as I saw them as liberal imperialists. By the time Kosovo came round most of my allies in opposing that war were right-wing libertarians, but the left were for the most part positively ecstatic at the bombing of Serbia. This is why I believe that Tony Blair is a more dangerous and violent nationalist than Nigel Farage.

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Originally Posted by Burney

It's a trait of the modern left in general, I'm afraid. They actively hate Britishness and find any suggestion that there may be anything positive about this country's legacy disgusting. This is why they lap up the ahistorical rhetoric of Islamists.

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And that's why it was always important to wear your England shirt and show your real colours, despite any squeamishness. The right sort's failure to do so just encouraged them.

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Originally Posted by Ash

But it was the Left that most loudly took up the cause of 'humanitarian intervention' in Jugoslavia and were at the forefront of demands for military action. That was the point at which I left the Left, as I saw them as liberal imperialists. By the time Kosovo came round most of my allies in opposing that war were right-wing libertarians, but the left were for the most part positively ecstatic at the bombing of Serbia. This is why I believe that Tony Blair is a more dangerous and violent nationalist than Nigel Farage.

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That was all just for show, I thought. Sort of "Vote for us, everyone! Us Lefties can bomb people too!"

It's true though, sad to say, but although the finest people you will ever meet in life go to war, it is also a powerful arsehole magnet. Bosnia was especially bad because, being on the mainland, half of Europe's surly, disaffected teens could easily get there by road and rail :-\

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

It's what all you urban trendies wanted. You know, "modern, liberal, secular" and all that rot.

You asked for it :shrug:

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Ayatollah Blair? Secular?

He was practically a protestant, catholic and muslim all at once imo.

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Originally Posted by Ash

Ayatollah Blair? Secular?

He was practically a protestant, catholic and muslim all at once imo.

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Oh, don't look at me; I don't even know what the word means. B came up with the "modern, liberal etc." stuff yesterday. I merely made the point that that thinking actually pre-dates Blair by several decades and that most of his sort support, sustain and encourage it.

You could even blame the Pill or Women's Lib, imo, but not Blair.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Nah, sorry. Salman Rushdie was the canary in this particular coalmine. We watched a community in this country call for a man to be killed for blasphemy and threatened to the point that the state had to protect him full-time and it didn't wake us up to the fact that something had gone very, very wrong in our muslim population. That was in 1989. We pussyfooted around them then and they saw we were weak.

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That's a fair point in terms of demonstrating the touchy sensitivity, murderous fanaticism and intolerance of apostacy, but you can trace all that back a very long way. Probably to the start, in fact. :-|

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Originally Posted by Ash

That's a fair point in terms of demonstrating the touchy sensitivity, murderous fanaticism and intolerance of apostacy, but you can trace all that back a very long way. Probably to the start, in fact. :-|

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I think it was the point at which we first should have realised that multiculturalism had utterly failed as regarded the muslim community. The 'muslims as victims' thing has deeper roots, though. You could go back to Israel or latterly Afghanistan (that film where Rambo's fighting alongside the Allans looks bloody weird now) for that. Bosnia was a relative latecomer.

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Originally Posted by Burney

I think it was the point at which we first should have realised that multiculturalism had utterly failed as regarded the muslim community. The 'muslims as victims' thing has deeper roots, though. You could go back to Israel or latterly Afghanistan (that film where Rambo's fighting alongside the Allans looks bloody weird now) for that. Bosnia was a relative latecomer.

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Afghanistan was year zero for me, although I believe in terms of global promotion and radicalisation it got to about No 35 in the charts, whereas Bosnia went to No 1 and stayed there. I consider Zbigniew Brzezinski as a key grandparent of contemporary Islamic terror.

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Originally Posted by Burney

I think it was the point at which we first should have realised that multiculturalism had utterly failed as regarded the muslim community. The 'muslims as victims' thing has deeper roots, though. You could go back to Israel or latterly Afghanistan (that film where Rambo's fighting alongside the Allans looks bloody weird now) for that. Bosnia was a relative latecomer.

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It was already too late by that point though, enormous social change was already afoot. Simply, we needed more people and we couldn't be too fussy about who they were or how they wanted to live and behave.

Immigration is an enterprise and immigrants will go where the best terms and conditions are on offer.

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

It was already too late by that point though, enormous social change was already afoot. Simply, we needed more people and we couldn't be too fussy about who they were or how they wanted to live and behave.

Immigration is an enterprise and immigrants will go where the best terms and conditions are on offer.

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In the early days we certainly didn't think it through in terms of cultural compatibility, no. Enoch Powell copped on, but picked the wrong target.

Weirder, though, is the idea that Merkel let all the migrants in because of low German birthrates, etc, etc. There are literally millions of unemployed young men and women in Italy, Spain and Greece. Why not encourage them in instead of hordes of uneducated muslim men? Surely if the EU means anything, that should have been the obvious answer, shouldn't it? Does rather suggest it might have been more about German guilt and virtue signalling pure demographics.

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Originally Posted by Burney

In the early days we certainly didn't think it through in terms of cultural compatibility, no. Enoch Powell copped on, but picked the wrong target.

Weirder, though, is the idea that Merkel let all the migrants in because of low German birthrates, etc, etc. There are literally millions of unemployed young men and women in Italy, Spain and Greece. Why not encourage them in instead of hordes of uneducated muslim men? Surely if the EU means anything, that should have been the obvious answer, shouldn't it? Does rather suggest it might have been more about German guilt and virtue signalling pure demographics.

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Sure. But, as with her daddy Kohl and the Wall, it just sort of happened and she tried to make the best of it.

And don't forget that poor Europeans are just as infertile as Germans are so that wouldn't really help.

Burney is right about the Salman Rushdie affair being a watershed moment. At that point the state should have taken decisive action against all and everyone calling for his death.

Instead the taxpayer had to spend loads of money to protect a citizen who had written a novel from being lynched by whipped-up mobs of religious bigots.